thanks Lawrence
On 12/09/2017 16:20, Lawrence Upton wrote:
>> gosh must be tricky to know what our own prejudices are (-esp as in my
> case I do not meet many people these days)
>
> It helps clear thinking to meet others, yes, especially if they do not
> share one's assumptions
> these exchanges have been useful in that regard, I think
>
>> and I suppose we rationalise prejudices them
> I am sure that we do
>
>> perhaps not all right wing Tories are bad ???:-) or neo Nazi's and as for
> Trump eek
> depends what we mean by 'bad'
> they are responsible certainly
>
> I say nothing of other parties. Tories are bad. The individuals may be in
> explicably odd mental places; but their effects are bad for the rest of us.
> Ditto neo-Nazis. Ditto Trump.
> Opposition to them is self-defence.
>
> One hears "It's not my fault; I didn't know" and that can be seen as
> evasive -- I'm thinking of, amongst other things, a man with whom I
> exchanged words a while back when he had said he wanted "England to be
> great again" (England, note, ) I asked him when it had been great
> previously and he said "I don't know. I'm not an historian."
>
> I pointed out the nonsense obtained by putting the 2 statements together
> and he used a well-known phrase.
>
> I persisted and said surely he must know enough from school and he said he
> didn't listen in history lessons because they were boring...
>
> Thus we have an implicit assertion that we may ignore anything which we do
> not find entertaining. I don't accept that.
>
> Tories are bad for us. Deomonstrably. Look at NHS. + the economy. +the
> latest news from my p.o.v. which is to do roadworks in the vicinity of UK's
> most famous ancient monument even though the archaeologists are still
> finding new things about it.
>
> Others may do such damage. Tories always do.
>
> I see no justification for neo-Naziism. Or Trump. (I have listened to many
> explications of the votes for Trump and they are illogical and or evasive)
>
> toodle-oo
>
> L
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> On 12 September 2017 at 11:05, Patrick McManus <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> L thanks -gosh must be tricky to know what our own prejudices are (-esp as
>> in my case I do not meet many people these days)
>>
>> and I suppose we rationalise prejudices them -perhaps not all right wing
>> Tories are bad ???:-) or neo Nazi's and as for Trump eek
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/2017 10:29, Lawrence Upton wrote:
>>
>>> I like benamored
>>> even if it's not in the dictionary
>>> or I assume it's not
>>>
>>> I remember, sort of, Pound's regretting, in his old age, some aspects of
>>> his behaviour -- though not, as I remember, the anti-semitism, more his
>>> spreading his talent too thin
>>>
>>> likewise, Eliot, I think, never retracted
>>>
>>> but... but... not to excuse but
>>>
>>> My father worked when young for a Jewish firm -- this would have been the
>>> 1920s -- fixing their vehicles
>>> and he told me once that, on that experience, Jews were wonderful people
>>> etc etc -- he was explaining to me the meaning and occurrence in his
>>> speech
>>> of some Yiddish phrase that he'd picked up; and then maybe a decade or
>>> more
>>> later when I mentioned that I was going to Poland for the summer (70s)
>>> asking somewhat suspiciously "Poland... aren't they all Jewish there"...
>>>
>>> I might explain his poor geographical / racial knowledge by saying he left
>>> school at 14 and never went further south and east than Dover (a Londoner:
>>> my mother told me that he once stopped the car at a pub in Devon to buy
>>> cigarettes and went back to her to say he couldn't understand them - they
>>> were all foreigners... He'd never met that accent somehow
>>>
>>> None of that explains the inconsistency
>>>
>>> But... but... I suspect all that wasn't that unusual.... certainly the
>>> contradiction is common still; look at the nonsense that passes for debate
>>> going on in UK now... NB attacks on Eastern Europeans by the
>>> self-righteous
>>> English
>>>
>>> And... My mother -- also an Edwardian birth -- would say "I don't know;
>>> I'm
>>> only a woman" even if she could cope with Devon accents
>>>
>>> And as DHL -- the writer, not the transport company -- has been mentioned,
>>> somewhere he wrote something like having sex with a black woman would make
>>> a man feel dirty... Can't remember where that was; but I remember turning
>>> a
>>> page and stumbling on it and being dumbfounded
>>>
>>> Ignorance... prejudice... oy vey... A London Jewish friend who lived in
>>> Israel for some years, asked me to go with him to a Yiddish film festival.
>>> (That festival was a 'revelation'.) And during our visits he communicated
>>> his belief that Yiddish was a C19 invention made in response to Zionism!
>>>
>>> I told him what I knew and he was a little gobsmacked
>>>
>>> I of course am free of ignorance and prejudice
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> On 12 September 2017 at 10:05, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> enamoured, whoops
>>>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 at 5:58 pm, Bill Wootton <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that's how I would take it, L. Also even a dickhead may not always
>>>>> have been a dickhead or some gems might emerge despite their dickheadry.
>>>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> do recall Larkin's poem about the toad, work, squatting on your life and
>>>>> being benamored of that expression.
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 at 2:45 PM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall reading that; but if I understand it, then sure -- the
>>>>>> writer's writing is more reliable than their commentary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> L
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 September 2017 at 04:27, Andrew Burke <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I particularly liked having a small discussion about Larkin as a
>>>>>> focus.
>>>>> So
>>>>>>> I thought I'd throw in something else to discuss - from Poetry Daily's
>>>>>>> Newsletter:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DH Lawrence’s advice to 'never trust the artist; trust the tale',
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Over to you ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> Books available through Walleah Press
>>>>>>> http://walleahpress.com.au
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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