St Marys Books at Stamford, Though the volumes don't show on their website
anymore. Still might be worth phoning them ..,.
On 18 May 2017 at 15:55, Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Damn! I wouldn't have minded getting my paws on those!
>
> The Proclamations were pretty much equivalent to (US) Executive Orders --
> they
> tended to run in parallel to the Statutes, when something had to be passed
> quickly, or bypass Parliament.
>
> R.
>
> >
> > On 18 May 2017 at 14:08 David Bircumshaw
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't know when the translations were made either, Rob, although
> your
> > example feels very mid-to-late sixteenth century. On a side note, to
> share
> > something that tickled me, in a Stamford bookshop I came across two
> > volumes
> > of 'Tudor Royal Proclamations'. Edited by two gentlemen named Hughes
> and
> > Larkin :)
> >
> > On 18 May 2017 at 09:07, Robin Hamilton <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, dave.
> > >
> > > Well observed -- the original Statute would have been written in
> > > Anglo-Norman,
> > > so what you have in my post is a later translation. Just when the
> > > translations
> > > were made, I haven't yet been able to work out -- you'd think
> someone,
> > > somewhere
> > > on the Web, would deal with this, but if they do, I haven't yet
> found
> > > any
> > > pertinent reference. Probably sometime in the mid-sixteenth
> century, at
> > > a
> > > guess, when the Statutes began to be issued in Collections. The
> > > eighteenth
> > > century collections (by Ruffhead and Pickering) are the easiest
> ones to
> > > find,
> > > and these usually print the original Anglo-Norman and the English
> > > version
> > > side
> > > by side, with the English (presumably) derived from whichever
> version
> > > was
> > > first
> > > produced.
> > >
> > > I came on it when I was trying to track down exactly which Statute
> > > Thomas
> > > Harman
> > > refers to (both vaguely and disingenuously -- it's a long and
> peculiar
> > > story) in
> > > A Caveat for Common Cursitors in 1567. It's the 1383 Statute, for
> what
> > > that's
> > > worth, in Harman's case.
> > >
> > > "2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]" -- this is the standard way the
> > > bloody
> > > things
> > > are referred to: the year of the reign of the relevant monarch. So
> the
> > > one
> > > I
> > > posted was issued in the second year of the reign of Richard II --
> i.e.
> > > 1379 --
> > > and it's from the 5th chapter/section of the first Statute issued
> in
> > > that
> > > year.
> > > Except, as I say, the original would have been written at that
> point in
> > > time in
> > > Anglo-Norman.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Robin
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 18 May 2017 at 04:00 David Bircumshaw
> > > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > > Very impressive, Although it seems more proto-Elizabethan or late
> > > Tudor
> > > > than Richard Two, who, although he might not have spoke English
> at
> > > all,
> > > > was
> > > > contemporary with Chaucer, Gower and even the Pearl poet. And
> their
> > > > versions of English.
> > > >
> > > > I did though enjoy the hyperbolic expansion of the
> > > lingo-not-yet-by-jingo.
> > > > Really liked it.
> > > >
> > > > dave
> > > >
> > > > On 17 May 2017 at 09:15, Patrick McManus <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > haha nice
> > > > >
> > > > > Dunning-Kruger McManus
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 17/05/2017 02:47, Doug Barbour wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Oh okay, he was right at least on this: "[Trump] is thus the
> > > all-time
> > > > >> record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in
> > > which the
> > > > >> incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own
> > > > >> incompetence.”
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But with a compliant Congress, he may still get away with
> being
> > > so…
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Doug
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On May 16, 2017, at 7:20 PM, Bill Wootton <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Brooks may be a conservative ratbag, Doug but this article
> > > seemed well
> > > > >>> observed to me:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-
> > > classified-data.html
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Bill
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 11:10 am, Doug Barbour <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> It was right well found, Robin.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> A lengthy look back, & then at where we are ow (I think
> there
> > > are a
> > > > >>>> few
> > > > >>>> more local PMs you might include…?).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Bill: I wouldnt rally trust David Brooks as far as I could
> > > heave him,
> > > > >>>> but…
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Doug
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> On May 16, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bill Wootton <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> Yes, I kind of presumed as much, Robin about the majority
> of
> > > it. I
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> thought
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> you had fiddled a bit to make the opening couplet. Amazing.
> > > Love
> > > > >>>>> 'him
> > > > >>>>> of
> > > > >>>>> whom the word was moved'. Words move so oddly in the
> current
> > > term
> > > > >>>>> limited
> > > > >>>>> elected monarch. David Brooks on New York Times points out
> the
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>> difficulties
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> 'trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just
> six
> > > > >>>>> fireflies
> > > > >>>>> beeping randomly in a jar'.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Bill
> > > > >>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 10:04 am, Robin Hamilton <
> > > > >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Not my words, Bill, but an actual Act of Parliament passed
> in
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>> second
> > > > >>>>>> year of
> > > > >>>>>> the reign of Richard II.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Didn't turn out real well for him either, did it?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Came on it accidentally, and was quite disconcerted at how
> > > apposite
> > > > >>>>>> it
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>> is
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>> certain things being uttered by a current term-limited
> elected
> > > > >>>>>> monarch.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Next down the line: the Divine Right of Presidents -- "I
> was
> > > > >>>>>> elected
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>> by
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> people, and the people are the Voice of God, so anyone who
> > > objects
> > > > >>>>>> to
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>> what
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> I do
> > > > >>>>>> is committing blasphemy, and will be dealt with
> accordingly."
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Robin
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On 17 May 2017 at 00:28 Bill Wootton <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Impressive accretion of moving words here, Robin.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Bill
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 6:20 am, Robin Hamilton <
> > > > >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Item, of Devisors of false News and of horrible and false
> > > Lyes
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> of Prelates, Dukes, Earls, Barons, and other Nobles, and
> > > great
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Men of the Realm, and also of the Chancellor, Treasurer,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Clerk of the Privy Seal, Steward of the King’s House,
> > > Justices
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> of the one Bench or of the other, and of other great
> > > Officers of
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> the Realm, of things which by the said Prelates, Lords,
> > > Nobles,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> and Officers aforesaid were never spoken, done, nor
> > > thought, in
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> great Slander of the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles and
> > > Officers,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> whereby Debates and Discords might arise between the
> said
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Lords, or between the Lords and the Commons (which God
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> forbid), and whereof great Peril and Mischief might
> come to
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> all the Realm, and quick Subversion and Destruction of
> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> said Realm if due remedy be not provided ; it is
> straitly
> > > de-
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> fended upon grievous pain for to eschew the said
> Damages and
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Perils, that from henceforth none be so hardy to devise,
> > > speak,
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> or to tell, any false News, Lyes, or other such false
> > > things, of
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Prelates, Lords, and of other aforesaid, whereof
> Discord or
> > > any
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Slander might arise within the same Realm, and he that
> doth
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> the same shall incur and have the pain another time
> ordained
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> thereof by the Statute of Westminster the first, which
> > > will, that
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> he be taken and imprisoned till he have found him of
> whom
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> word was moved.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> 2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
> > > > >>>> [log in to unmask]
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > > > >>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Latest books:
> > > > >>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > > > >>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> > > > >>>> Recording Dates
> > > > >>>> (Rubicon Press)
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he
> comes to
> > > think
> > > > >>>> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to
> drinking
> > > and
> > > > >>>> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and
> > > procrastination.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thomas De Quincey
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Douglas Barbour
> > > > >> [log in to unmask]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > > > >> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Latest books:
> > > > >> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > > > >> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> > > > >> Recording Dates
> > > > >> (Rubicon Press)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes
> to
> > > think
> > > > >> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking
> and
> > > > >> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and
> procrastination.
> > > > >> Thomas De Quincey
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Joseph Bircumshaw
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >
>
--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
|
