Tim, is Jamie saying that he thinks Dylan’s lyrics are mostly bad poetry compared to what he thinks is good poetry? I haven’t been able to make sense of (or follow much) the Lace/McKendrick discussion, so I genuinely don’t know if he thinks this or not. Do you think it, Jamie?
I agree with him on his general views about the differences in song and poetry, though. True, I did not hold that view originally, but now that he has given a fuller explanation of his position (and Peter’s), I have to say I agree with it. I realise that he and I will probably never agree on many other issues regarding poetry but on this issue I can’t find anything I can disagree with. That is not to say that at some future point, someone else might come along and persuade me otherwise.
I think, though, that generally I am more in agreement with you on poetry matters than I am with Jamie; and what you say about the proponents of the avant-garde on this list failing to defend Dylan is true. I have found this also to be the case in other contexts. I no longer find it easy to believe proponents of the avant-garde who say they like Dylan while showing none of his influence in their work—that goes for mainstream poets, too, like Simon Armitage.
On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 12:59 Tim Allen wrote:
I was out all day yesterday and I couldn't believe the number of posts I've just gone through on this.
Anyway, I've said what I think and tried to say why. It's interesting though, because I am not actually all that bothered by the original problem of the poem/song lyric thing. I think it's quite funny. For me its not a problem that Dylan was given the Nobel, it's completely understandable to me, but it's also completely understandable to me why some people, knowing their views on stuff, should disagree. It's funny because both these views point to bigger and wider problems about literature and value. I disagree quite intensely for example with Jamie's saying that Dylan's lyrics are mostly bad poetry when compared to what he considers good poetry, but again this points to much bigger issues with regard to poetry that lie outside the area of lyric and poem comparison that have formed the subject matter of most posts.
I find it slightly disappointing that on a list such as this it only appears to be only David, Jeff, Mark and myself who have come down on the Dylan side, the lack of comment from experimental (or whatever) poets who are engaged with cross-genre practice is noticeable - maybe it's a generation thing.
Cheers
Tim
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