Jeff, I quite accept my description is meagre - but you'll understand too
that this is a discussion group not a peer-reviewed article. And I don't
think your argument is at all 'outlandish' - on the contrary this
semi-philosophical usage of the term (and to your credit you do explore some
sources of the empiricist tradition) applied to various kinds of poetry
precedes your thesis by many decades - I've often cited Crozier and later
Sheppard in this respect, and also complained that it's become a kind of
often unthinking orthodoxy in various circles. My own view is that it's an
inadequate and unhelpful way of viewing poetry and that it largely ignores
elements such as tone, irony, ambiguity, rhythm, internal conflict, play,
along with a great many often essential elements we enjoy in poetry, but I
don't think we're going to agree about any of this.
Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Side
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 5:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Britain vs. U.S. Poetry war
Jamie, I think you describe the thesis too meagerly, thus giving a false
impression of it. For the sake of brevity, here is its synopsis (also for
any potential publishers out there):
“The thesis argues that Wordsworth’s poetry is characterised by an
“empiricist” aesthetic, which involves a heavy commitment to description and
a desire to limit the interpretive freedom of his readers. Focusing on the
poetry up to the 1805 Prelude, the first chapter seeks to make good this
analysis of Wordsworth’s mindset, citing some poems, some correspondence,
his use of Dorothy Wordsworth’s journal, and some contemporary critical
responses. Chapter two describes the empiricist tradition, paying attention
to Hartley, Berkeley and others. Chapter three describes Coleridge’s
contribution to this empiricist cast of mind, suggesting that Coleridge is
himself an empiricist figure, and not the transcendentalist thinker of
popular reputation. Chapter four then turns to consider Wordsworth’s
influence on some modern poetry, and especially upon Seamus Heaney. Not all
poetry shows Wordsworth’s influence, however, and a final chapter suggests
some which doesn’t, and gives a list of linguistic and stylistic features
that distinguish the empiricist and non-empiricist sorts of verse.”
That is a more accurate portrayal of it. I must also add that several
peer-reviewed articles drawn from some of the thesis’s chapters were
published several years ago. I mention this to point out that there is
nothing outlandish in the thesis, as is suggested by your summary of it.
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 17:08, Jamie McKendrick wrote:
Way back then I did actually read several chapters of your thesis, Jeff.
Much of the work, regarding the history around Coleridge and the Lyrical
Ballads, and some of the stuff on Pound, is carefully researched - it's the
underlying premise of its application to the contemporary that I radically
disagree with. In the end it seems you favour abstraction as an aide to
free-association (for me a somewhat solipsistic exercise) and so of course
you will prefer most song lyrics to most poetry - as you've come close to
admitting at times). But we've had this argument before and neither of us
have convinced each other so best we leave it there.
Genuinely,
Jamie
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