Dear All
Paul, no clear reassurance has been given to EU migrants living in the UK regarding their acquired rights, both from the government and from future candidates.
No clear reassurance has been given by the PM. Indeed there is a current petition to submit a letter to the PM regarding this: https://neweuropeans.net/event/1229/letter-david-cameron
During the Parliament discussion on the topic it was explicitly said that the status of EU migrants in UK will depend on the results of the negotiations between the UK and the EUK after art. 50 is triggered: https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2016-06-29/debates/16062974000414/EUNationalsInTheUK (important also to notice that a Ukip member suggested to use EU migrants as political hostages during such negotiations: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/30/ukip-lord-calls-for-eu-nationals-to-be-used-as-hostages-in-brussels-discussions-5975655/)
Theresa May has indeed confirmed that the status of EU migrants will be the subject of negotiations: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/04/future-of-eu-nationals-in-uk-uncertain-may-comments-tory-leadership-brexit
All the fellow EU citizens in this mailing list should know that the status of EU migrants in the UK is a very politically contested issue at the moment and UK media are covered with stories of EU migrants feeling attacked in their acquired rights (and I am not even mentioning the widespread xenophobia which has emerged before and after the referendum). I agree with Florian that this should be our concern.
The petition below puts forward once again a British-centred view of what the EU is or should be - and this is precisely why Brexit happened in the first place, as I wrote here: http://www.thesociologicalreview.com/blog/brexit-and-the-necessity-of-knowing-europe.html
All best wishes
Lorenza
________________________________________
From: Deals with social policy and social welfare issues in Europe [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Paul Spicker [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 July 2016 13:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A petition on European Citizenship
There are conflicting understandings of what European Citizenship might
mean. One is that European nationals enjoy certain benefits as members
of a club, and that if their subscription lapses, so do the benefits.
There is some ground for that position legally, because utlimately the
status of European Citizenship is based in a series of international
treaties. That is not, however, what the European Union has been
telling us about our citizenship since 1993, and it would not justify
the inclusion of European Citizenship in a Charter of Fundamental
Rights. Citizenship was offered unconditionally, without reservation
and 'additionally' to other citizenships, as both symbol and proof of
how the European Union was to serve ordinary people. If British
nationals no longer have any fundamental rights - if their rights can be
snuffed out - then so can yours.
We have different understandings, too, of what the implications of a
democratic procedure might be. There are limits to what can be decided
by majority voting, and Europe's troubled history should counsel against
any arrangement where a majority can vote to extinguish the rights of a
minority. If citizenship is a fundamental right, rather than a benefit
of membership - it is bundled in the Charter along with others we would
normally call human rights - it cannot legitimately be annulled,
cancelled or snuffed out by the decision of any government.
The liberal democracies have generally accepted that the acquired rights
should continue to be respected in future arrangements. When Ireland
left the UK, citizens on both sides of the border had the option of
rights on either side. When Greenland left the EU, citizens were given
(and I believe still have) the option of a Danish (EU) passport or a
Greenland (non-EU) passport.
You raise a separate, and very important, set of considerations relating
to nationals of European states living in the UK, and UK citizens living
in the rest of Europe. This is unlikely to be contentious in the UK:
two of the candidates for Prime Minister have already given unequivocal
assurances that the acquired rights of Europeans in the UK will be
respected, while the third has said this will be conditional on the
rights of British citizens in the rest of Europe.
Paul Spicker
--
Paul Spicker
Emeritus Professor of Public Policy
Robert Gordon University
tel: +44 1334850164
website: http://www.spicker.uk/
blog: http://blog.spicker.uk/
.On 07/07/2016 12:13, Florian Hertel wrote:
> Dear Paul, dear all,
>
> I apologize for making a discussion point on a mailing list and for the
> myriad demands for unsubscription that may follow this mail (to those
> who feel spammed and want to unsubscribe, please, do not spam fellow
> list receivers but manage your subscription yourself at
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=EUROPEAN-SOCIAL-POLICY&A=1).
>
>
>
> I write this comment because I am honestly baffled by the proposed
> petition. Why should I sign, as a European citizen, a petition that may
> (or legally fail to) allow British nationals to get a European
> citizenship. In fact, a simple majority of those British nationals who
> voted (with the acquiescence of those British nationals who did not
> vote) just expressed their wish to exit the EU. Why should a citizenship
> of whatever nature be granted to people who, under majority rules,
> democratically decided for exit not least because of the duties
> membership involves. By granting the citizenship rights but not the
> membership responsibilities, I would actually destabilize the very Union
> which already fails in finding a fair compromise between public
> responsibilities and individual rights. More problematic, however, a
> successful petition on these lines would oust the democratic procedure
> that resulted in the exit vote and if anything strengthen the exit camp
> by overruling a national vote with an international one.
>
> I actually do not blame the majority who voted for an exit but those who
> wanted to stay and sadly and unfortunately failed to reach those groups
> of exit voters who may not reap the same benefits or actually understand
> the benefits a EU membership yields to them. If the more privileged
> groups now fail to accept the majority decision, how can the system at
> large be thought credible or legitimate or in any sense democratic.
> However, I would sign such a petition if it were primarily aimed at the
> thousands of refugees (including British nationals) who come to Europe
> for political, social and economic safety and try - against all odds -
> to make a life here for themselves. In the end, they bet their lives on
> entering the EU and are not permitted but even shamefully used as an
> argument (in all European countries) for exiting the Union. I apologize
> again for my long response and for my inability to come up with a more
> positive perspective on the suggested petition.
>
> All the best,
> Florian
>
>
> Am 07.07.2016 um 11:32 schrieb Moore, Robert:
>> Perhaps a constitutional lawyer can advise on this but it seems to me
>> theonly _citizenship_ I have is my EU citizenship. Within the UK I am
>> a _subject_ of the Crown and have no rights that the Crown can not
>> take away.
>> Am I correct?
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Robert Moore
>> School of Sociology and Social Policy
>> Eleanor Rathbone Building
>> The University of Liverpool
>> L69 7ZA
>>
>> Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Deals with social policy and social welfare issues in Europe
>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Paul Spicker
>> [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 06 July 2016 20:27
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: A petition on European Citizenship
>>
>> I have started a petition on change.org<https://t.co/zWRt5jWRzJ>,
>> with the intention of submitting it to the European Parliament when
>> it gains sufficient support (the EP online portal for petitions
>> allows people to registersupport, but the first login takes a day, so
>> it is not suitable for collecting signatures). Here is the text.
>> Our European citizenship is a fundamental right. Please defend
>> it.<https://t.co/zWRt5jWRzJ>
>>
>> We are citizens of the European Union. In the Charter of Fundamental
>> Rights of the
>> EU<http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf>, the Union
>> committed itself to the principle that each and every citizen has
>> basicrights. However, the treaties did not directly create distinct
>> legal protections of the status of a citizen, which were considered
>> to be sufficientlyprotected by the actions of Member States, and
>> Protocol 30 specifically reserves judicial processes relating to such
>> rights to the United Kingdom. Ifthe United Kingdom ceases to be a
>> Member State, British nationals may no longer additionally become
>> European citizens. It does not follow that the fundamental rights
>> currently held by British nationals should be treated as if they
>> never existed.
>>
>> The EU needs now to consider how to deal both with the rights
>> acquired byUK citizens and those acquired in the UK by citizens of
>> other countries. Citizenship has been described as ‘the right to have
>> rights’. If the rights of citizenship are truly fundamental, no
>> person who currently enjoys the status of a European citizen should
>> have their citizenship removed. No process which denies European
>> citizens the right to have rights can be considered consistent with
>> the Charter.
>>
>> The consent of the European Parliament is required before any
>> agreement with the departing member state can be concluded. We
>> therefore petition the European Parliament, as the guarantor of EU
>> citizenship, to safeguard the fundamental rights flowing from EU
>> citizenship both for us and for those elsewhere in the EU. We ask the
>> Parliament and the institutions of the EU to ensure that British
>> citizens who are currently citizens of the European Community, and
>> who wish to preserve that status, should on application be able to
>> retain European citizenship after the UK ceases to be a Member State.
>>
>> If you agree, please sign the petition by following this
>> link<https://t.co/zWRt5jWRzJ> at https://t.co/zWRt5jWRzJ .
>>
>> It's been suggested to me that this might also be an appropriate
>> subject for the European Citizens Initiative, which is a direct
>> legislative proposal to the Commission: more at
>> http://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/public/welcome . This calls
>> however for representatives from 7 countries, and competence in
>> legislative drafting; does anyone know anyone capable of taking that
>> forward?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Spicker
>> Emeritus Professor of Public Policy
>> Robert Gordon University
>>
>> tel: +44 1334850164
>>
>> website: http://www.spicker.uk/
>> blog: http://blog.spicker.uk/
>
> --
> Dr. Florian Hertel
>
> Max Weber Fellow
> Social and Political Science (SPS)
> European University Institute, Florence
>
> Office no. BF 231
> Via dei Roccettini, 9
> 50014 San Domenico di Fiesole
>
> Tel.: (+39)-055-4685-964 (2964)
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
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