JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives


BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives


BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Home

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Home

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS  May 2016

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS May 2016

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Fwd: Re: names

From:

Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

British & Irish poets <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 19:38:48 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (5 lines)

On Sunday, 1 May 2016, Sean Carey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

It all depends Tim on what one is seeking from poetry or indeed wonders what the actual purpose of poetry is in 2016 in a complex world. In your own work I see a sincere project in progress which is rare enough across the overall output I see mostly on the internet. In the context of poetry as a full time or part time career the actual artistic aspect must be defined not fudged. As David Antin explained many famous artists are or were keen students of the NY Stock Exchange but their PR presents them as humble folk. We may dislike economics yet it governs our lives in a total way if art of any kind is merely a commodity. Point being to look in a fresh way at divisions in poetry perhaps being tactical rather than driven by convictions. This then erases the divides as being not as serious as we have thought for decades but more positioning perhaps? A career choice of poetry full or part time is unlike Basil Bunting's point on poetry as a hobby. We live in a world where people have to account for their income and savings or earned cash. This mainly is focused on people in political life so artists seldom face a media hostility to declare their income. Of course on any general list there are huge economic margins with many living on limited incomes as well as those on middle to high incomes. Few on this list will ever sell books in vast amounts or become household names. To then presume they are all poor is to move beyond the usual economic statistics of any general grouping of individuals. There is money to be made via poetry through the routes we all know such as the education system literary figures are drawn to on these islands. No point in mentioning these places or indeed the locations. All of that has been explained before yet few inside that bubble ever explain their circumstances. To claim to be on the left is all too easy in our day but how many ever practice their brands of neo socialism? A huge gap exists between writing about one's love for the poor and doing something however micro about poverty. On any political march one walks past people begging on the same streets or sleeping rough. In Dublin the homeless hostels are now so violent people opt to sleep in public parks using their runners as pillows. An Irish poet I am sure may well write a poem about this man but that same poet may well have spare room in his or her home. Indeed many have many spare rooms to give shelter and food to homeless people. The violence in the hostels means a vacuum exists with many preferring prison to sleeping rough. To house one homeless person is an act of necessary humanity not macro in solving the overall problem. Yet a small step in the right direction as well as poetry readings for worthy charity organisations can be considered. Maybe Tim we expect too much from poetry and poets but your desire to seek some truth merits huge respect. Well done! Sean
On Tuesday, 26 April 2016, Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: I see the spectrum or essential difference question as being like the wave/particle duality in electromagnetism - mostly anyway - especially if we take poets like your Harwood and Hughes example. It depends upon what you are looking for, or where you are looking, what aspect you are measuring - measuring with your pleasure receptors or whatever. If you take your adjectival list describing the poetry of Gustafsson (unless you mean all of them in the 'traditional' sense), many of the 'experimental' poets I like use narrative, tone and irony, even if none are quite what we might expect in a mainstream poem. Narrative is more likely to be implied or fragmented, but it's still narrative as a device. Tone - whole areas of possible tonal manipulation are possible when a poet breaks out of the typical mainstream mode. Irony becomes something else, often twisting into something extreme. Etc. In the past I've put forward the idea that it is the modern UK mainstream poem that is the real anomaly within poetry as a whole, both with regard to the past and to poetry internationally, not the linguistically innovative. I've never been picked up on it or challenged and like a lot of these things I don't even know if I could explain exactly why or if I could pick my evidence convincingly. But this does point to the direction from which I've consistently tried to talk about this issue, emphasising the variations in so-called experimental while trying to home in on the peculiarities of a Duffy poem etc. That is of course the opposite of what we are trying to do in this discussion. On 25 Apr 2016, at 12:55, [log in to unmask] wrote: > I've spent a bit of time thinking about your question about the spectrum and I haven't come up with an easy or fully satisfying answer. > > On the whole I tend towards the view that experimental/traditional is an either/or and best treated, almost, as separate artforms. That is, I see each form as having evolved its own rules, tactics, aspirations and the practitioner either does one or does the other, but you can't really do both at the same time. My analogy would be serial/tonal music as conceived by Schoenberg. He could compose either sort, but the procedures were so different that there wasn't really a middle position between the two. Either you had a tone-row or you had a key signature. > > And on the whole I think this is the best model to describe the two poets I mentioned. If you use the "new sentence" (Silliman's valuable term), then the mind-blowing polyvocality of Lisa Samuels' Tomorrowland becomes possible. But on the other hand the kind of things Lars Gustafsson can do with traditional narrative, anecdote, tone and irony and so on become unavailable. His art requires the "old sentence". > > So with that kind of model in mind I am usually a little prejudiced against the hybridity promoted in recent years. But I think others might see it differently. I'm aware that the "new sentence" is only one aspect of modern poetry and that there are poets I care for very much (Lee Harwood, Peter Hughes spring to mind) for whom the on/off model seems entirely to break down, and when contemplating those poets a spectrum model of universal discourse seems to reassert itself. 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager