If nothing else, it's worth raising this with Mahendra. As I
understand it, the BL's departments often operate independently and it
may be that the inconsistency between its outreach efforts and
specific licensing arrangements (which may have been put in place some
time ago), could be enough to push things a long a bit.
All the best
L.
On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Neel Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I'm philosophically in full agreement with you. It might, however, not be
> the most promising approach to competing for an award from the BL...
>
> This really points up a major challenge for the broader DH community. We
> need to educate, advocate and through whatever combination of persuasion or
> pressure bring institutions like the BL and funding agencies like Mellon to
> recognize the important of examples like OPenn
> (http://openn.library.upenn.edu/html/PennManuscripts.html), and insist on
> licenses that unambiguously support scholarly reuse of data that otherwise
> can't really be considered "scholarly data". "Look but don't touch" is not
> sufficient.
>
>
>
> On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Ethan Gruber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Using a robot may be against their terms of service, but simultaneously, I
> don't think they can enforce a restriction on reuse of data. Just poking
> around the site, it seems like the only way to harvest content is by screen
> scraping, as I don't see any links to web services. So it's a bit of a Catch
> 22. You can freely use data and images, but you can't actually get to them
> quickly and easily.
>
> I would just build a robot and do it anyway.
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Neel Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> But can they, without holding copyright, put a restrictive license on use
>> of their web site? Their terms of use explicitly prohibit reuse:
>>
>> http://www.bl.uk/aboutus/terms/copyright/
>>
>> " you may not without the prior written consent of the British Library:
>>
>> systematically extract and/or re-utilise the content of the Site,
>> including but not limited to the utilisation of any data mining, robots, or
>> similar data gathering and extraction tools to extract (whether once or many
>> times) for re-utilisation of any substantial parts of this the Site
>> create and/or publish your own database that features substantial parts of
>> this website, including but not limited to, our prices and product/service
>> listing
>>
>> "
>>
>> Emphasis in the original web page. They certainly are trying hard to be
>> unambiguously clear that they don't want you doing this.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:25 AM, Ethan Gruber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Two points: there was a recent court ruling (either in the UK or
>> continental Europe, I can't remember, but both apply in this case) that a
>> holding institution cannot exert copyright over images of works in the
>> public domain, so technically the British Library cannot restrict how you
>> use images of Greek manuscripts. Second, scholarly use of manuscript images
>> is clearly Fair Use. In short, do whatever you want.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Neel Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The sad part is that there is no shortage of already digitized images of
>>> Greek MSS. It's a potentially invaluable resource, and the inexplicable
>>> inconsistency that "pretty" illuminated pages are available CC-0 while
>>> images of "mere" text pages are restricted is maddeningly incoherent. We
>>> have lifetimes of work to do with these MSS, and it is a great shame that we
>>> can't at present begin on the BL's important material.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jan 26, 2016, at 11:14 AM, Gabriel BODARD <[log in to unmask]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Ah, that may be true, in which case it's a shame. A great many of the
>>> > images, manuscript catalogues, and other BL datasets are released under CC-0
>>> > however (including a million images at Flickr Commons). I may have gotten
>>> > over-excited when I thought of the Greek manuscripts, but there's plenty
>>> > more to play with at http://labs.bl.uk/Digital+Collections
>>> >
>>> > Apologies,
>>> >
>>> > G
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 26/01/2016 15:54, Neel Smith wrote:
>>> >> But the Greek MSS (other than images of illuminated pages) are not
>>> >> licensed for scholarly reuse. So how are we supposed to reuse them?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Gabriel BODARD
>>> >>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Lovely opportunity for anyone who's been harbouring a desire to do
>>> >>> innovative and digital things with (e.g.) the digitized Greek manuscripts in
>>> >>> the British Library...
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> >>> Subject: BL Labs Competition, Awards and UK Roadshow open for
>>> >>> 2016!
>>> >>> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:58:33 +0000
>>> >>> From: Mahey, Mahendra <[log in to unmask]>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Apologies for the BCC.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It’s that time of year again and we are proud to announce the annual
>>> >>> BL Labs Competition and BL Labs Awards, celebrating the use of the British
>>> >>> Library’s digital collections, are open for 2016!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The BL Labs Competition
>>> >>> (http://labs.bl.uk/British+Library+Labs+Competition+2016), which closes on
>>> >>> 11 April 2016, is looking for*innovative project ideas* which use our
>>> >>> digital collections in new and exciting ways. Two winners will be selected
>>> >>> who will get the opportunity to work on their projects in residence with BL
>>> >>> Labs at the British Library for 6 months, where they will receive the
>>> >>> necessary support to make their ideas happen. The Competition winner and
>>> >>> runner up will receive *£3000* and *£1000* respectively.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The BL Labs Awards
>>> >>> (http://labs.bl.uk/British+Library+Labs+Awards+2016), which closes on 5
>>> >>> September 2016, recognises *outstanding and innovative work* carried out
>>> >>> using our digital content in four key areas: Research, Commercial, Artistic
>>> >>> and Teaching / Learning. A prize of *£500* for the winner and *£100* for the
>>> >>> runner up will be awarded in each category.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The winners, runners up and other entrants’ work will be showcased
>>> >>> and the prizes given at the annual BL Labs Symposium on the 7 November at
>>> >>> the British Library, St Pancras, London.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> More information about the Competition and Awards is available via
>>> >>> the Digital Scholarship blog:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/digital-scholarship/2016/01/bl-labs-competition-and-awards-for-2016.html
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Why not come to one of the 15 'BL Labs Roadshow 2016' UK events we
>>> >>> are running between February and April 2016, to learn more about our digital
>>> >>> collections and discuss your ideas? This year, we are visiting institutions
>>> >>> in: Aberystwyth, Birmingham, Brighton, Bristol, Cambridge, Edinburgh,
>>> >>> Lancaster, London, Milton Keynes, Norwich, Sheffield and Wolverhampton.
>>> >>> Please find further Roadshow details below:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/digital-scholarship/2016/01/the-bl-labs-roadshow-2016.html
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *Mahendra Mahey*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> BL Labs Project Manager
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Tel +44 (0)20 7412 7324
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Fax +44 (0)20 7412 7093
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Skype mr_mahendra_mahey
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Email [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Twitter @mahendra_mahey
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *British Library Labs - Digital Scholarship*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The British Library
>>> >>>
>>> >>> St Pancras
>>> >>>
>>> >>> London
>>> >>>
>>> >>> NW1 2DB
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Email [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Twitter @BL_Labs Hashtag #BL_Labs
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Web http://labs.bl.uk
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Dr Gabriel BODARD
>>> >>> Reader in Digital Classics
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Institute of Classical Studies
>>> >>> University of London
>>> >>> Senate House
>>> >>> Malet Street
>>> >>> London WC1E 7HU
>>> >>> E:[log in to unmask]
>>> >>> T: +44 (0)20 78628752
>>> >>> http://digitalclassicist.org/
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dr Gabriel BODARD
>>> > Reader in Digital Classics
>>> >
>>> > Institute of Classical Studies
>>> > University of London
>>> > Senate House
>>> > Malet Street
>>> > London WC1E 7HU
>>> >
>>> > E: [log in to unmask]
>>> > T: +44 (0)20 78628752
>>> >
>>> > http://digitalclassicist.org/
>>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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