Hey chaps. As most people who know me are aware of my opposition to the DSA cuts generally, I will not waste your time with a rant. As I am a disability specialist working in widening participation, I am already coming across people who have decided against college or university because of these cuts. I think D/deaf students are possibly going to suffer the most. There has also been a surge in universities opting for lecture capturing, possibly as an anticipatory measure which is better than nothing.
The NRCPD is currently revising notetaking practices UK wide but I have not really been paying much attention as I am not on their register, and have no intention of doing so. I very much doubt NRCPD have consulted CHESS and they have have not consulted adept (formerly NATED) either. Have they consulted any D/deaf learners? I think Natalya has the right idea in requesting feedback from students to at least minimise bad practice but I think it is likely that we will all see a massive backward step by using other students to provide notes rather than qualified note takers, purely down to costs.
Sorry not to post something more positive
Best wishes
Melanie
Dr. Melanie Thorley
Disability and Diversity Outreach Officer and *AccessAbility Coordinator
University of Greenwich
[log in to unmask]
07931 226599
> On 4 Dec 2015, at 21:00, O'NEILL Rachel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I think that's a good idea Natalya to get UK-wide agreement on notetaker skills. Maybe Melanie's on this list?
> It's an important piece of work, not quick, but I would be happy to join in off list and then maybe consult on it?
> The Signature course came harder and harder to get people through, and since then all sorts of training has come and gone locally.
> It would be good to get UK standards agreed, so qualifications could then be produced based on them. If that had been in place,
> maybe the DSA would not have targeted notetakers so much.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Rachel
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Discussion list for CHESS <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Natalya D <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 04 December 2015 13:41
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: DSA cuts
>
> Do we actually have a concrete idea of notetaking training contents and
> qualifications for deaf students?
>
> I had OCN Level 2 notetakers in the day but some weren't very good even
> then. I know Melanie Thorley is writing up her thesis into something
> publishable on this. Most notetakers I know of come through agencies
> who do their own, some are good, some aren't good. I try and encourage
> the student to feed back, make clear requests and request replacements
> for poor notetakers sooner rather than later.
>
> I also sent this
> http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/handle/10072/28388/55742_1.pdf?sequence=1
> to the consultation which is a paper about deaf students' experiences at
> HE from Australia.
>
> I think we need to point to existing (or create) training and specific
> skills/competencies notetakers MUST have, either in general, or
> specifically for deaf students.
>
> I find it bizarre that sighted guide has been suddenly exempted when
> visually impaired students hardly need any of that as a rule - we aim to
> get them mobility trained so they can mobilise independently where
> possible/reasonable/feasible... I'd love to know the reasoning for that
> exemption and not deaf students' manual notetaking exemption... Who or
> how would we ask?
>
> Are people here filling in the latest framework "consultation"?
>
> Natalya
>
>
>> On 04/12/2015 12:47, Ian F. wrote:
>> It's going to go back to the days when we used to have to recruit
>> volunteers from the local community to provide support for students,
>> which always had varying results and students basically had to be
>> grateful for what they got, rather than having any control over the
>> quality of their support.
>>
>> Anyhow, I would argue that specialist note-taking for deaf students
>> should always have been a band 3 support type anyway and I wonder why
>> this wasn't raised earlier, or if so what was the response? I do get
>> that basic note-taking support for a student who can hear the tutor
>> could go into band 2, but for a deaf student surely it's a more
>> specialist role so should be moved up a band anyway?
>>
>>
>> Ian Francis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 04/12/2015 11:08, Bryan Coleman wrote:
>>> Hello Rachel,
>>>
>>> Yes – electronic note-taking, as a ‘band 3’ role, will still be funded.
>>> I should have included the full statement from the minister in my e-mail
>>> – it is here:
>>>
>>> http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2015-12-02/HCWS347/
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously, this only applies to students who receive DSA from Student
>>> Finance England.
>>>
>>> I agree that the risk of ‘patchy provision’ will increase as a result of
>>> this. Similar to a postcode lottery really, as different institutions
>>> (and departments possibly!) take different approaches to support and
>>> inclusive practice. The Department for Business Innovation and Skills
>>> (BIS) are currently working on a Quality Assurance Framework for support
>>> workers (aka NMH/Non-Medical Helpers). This should be ready for the end
>>> of January when the ‘two quotes exemptions’ (more info here:
>>> http://www.slc.co.uk/stakeholders-partners/updates/disabled-students-service-for-student-finance-england/exclusive-arrangements-with-non-medical-help-nmh-suppliers.aspx
>>>
>>> ) finish, but early signs/drafts of the Framework are not good. Some of
>>> us are involved in the consultation on this but it’s very rushed!
>>>
>>> The government is saying that universities should be taking their duties
>>> under the Equality Act more seriously – but this really seems to be a
>>> ‘justification’ for the cuts, rather than anything more.
>>>
>>> I think some institutions are planning to meet the costs of bands 1 and
>>> 2, but I’m sure many are not.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> *From:*Discussion list for CHESS [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
>>> Behalf Of *O'NEILL Rachel
>>> *Sent:* 04 December 2015 10:42
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: DSA cuts
>>>
>>> Thank you Bryan
>>>
>>> Very bad news. Am I right in saying that electronic note taking is
>>> likely to be protected and sign language interpreters?
>>>
>>> I know that many universities use manual notetakers, and often these
>>> people are untrained and the assessments may not identify that
>>> electronic note taking
>>>
>>> would be better. Some universities may not take seriously their Equality
>>> Act responsibilities. Universities don’t take nearly as much notice
>>>
>>> of the Equality act as the Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, which uses
>>> up a great deal of administration time.
>>>
>>> I have noticed a trend towards mainstreaming notetakers to Schools and
>>> Departments, making it their responsibility to pay for notetakers. Of
>>> course
>>>
>>> this would be very good if the departments understood the issues. But
>>> will they? We have mainstreaming adjustments to learning materials, such
>>> as putting up
>>>
>>> powerpoint at least 24 hours in advance and prioritising reading lists.
>>> Nobody checks to see if this happens. So who will check to make sure the
>>>
>>> deaf student actually gets a manual notetaker? Will departments know
>>> what a trained notetaker looks like or how to contact them? Will they
>>> have a system
>>>
>>> to book them or find substitutes in advance? By offloading
>>> responsibilities for note taking to academics, without some compulsory
>>> training for lecturers, I can
>>>
>>> see a lot of deaf students sitting in lectures and seminars with no note
>>> taking support.
>>>
>>> Actually I think it’s a bit shocking if disability offices allow this to
>>> happen without doing mandatory training for the academic staff linked to
>>> the deaf student.
>>>
>>> If it was prioritised more, like the Asylum and Nationality Act, the
>>> training would be compulsory and the academic member of staff would have
>>> to sign to say they understood it and would carry it out.
>>>
>>> Otherwise I’m afraid the Equality Act is not going to work.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Rachel
>>>
>>> On 3 Dec 2015, at 17:35, Bryan Coleman <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I think most of you will know that Jo Johnson announced this
>>> yesterday. I am circulating this as deaf students are specifically
>>> mentioned at the end. I’m personally very sad that 18 months of
>>> fighting this seems to have got us nowhere.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/dec/02/government-to-cut-funding-disabled-university-students-jo-johnson
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> Bryan Coleman
>>>
>>> Head of Disability & Dyslexia Support Service
>>>
>>> Student Services Department
>>>
>>> University of Sheffield
>>>
>>> 0114 222 1303
>>>
>>> www.sheffield.ac.uk/disability
>>> <http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/disability>
>
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