Hi all
Further to Flick's points about Poynton, I can add another some context to it's development and a further insight. I live not far from Poynton so from vague local awareness of the area and it’s recent history it may be useful to know that the shared space development was originally supposed to come AFTER a bypass around the area was built which linked in with the development of a relief road for the A6 going towards Manchester airport. Unfortunately the shared space in Poynton was built BEFORE the bypass got approval and that is basically why this small village in East Cheshire still has enormous lorries and far more traffic going through it all the time than it can cope with. But this is now happening in a 'shared space' area, which seems far more dangerous.
To add to the points made about the issues of shared space for disabled people with visual impairments, I've also said from the perspective of being a full time wheelchair user that Poynton is dangerous because of the combination of not having the obvious demarcation of a kerb, which keeps you out of the road, and the poor colour contrast, which even if you can see it properly, just confuses where you should and shouldn't be.
There is another area similar to this in a small retail park in the centre of Glossop where the shared space they have designed makes it really hard to work out where you should and shouldn't be. We are aware that High Peak Access Group have complained about that so hopefully there will be improvements as I believe a 2nd stage of the retail park is currently being planned.
Jon Burke
Access Project Manager
Manchester Disabled People's Access Group
Kath Locke Centre, 123 Moss Lane East, Hulme, Manchester, M15 5DD
E-Mail – [log in to unmask]
Website - www.mdpag.org.uk
Telephone - 0161 455 0219 or 07943 521793
Manchester Disabled People’s Access Group is registered in England and Wales under company number 6929240. We are a registered Charity under the Charity number 1133526.
-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Flick Harris
Sent: 02 December 2015 10:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
Thank you Jane for this. MDPAG members visited Poynton a few months ago and believe it is one of the most hazardous spaces wd had ever seen.
Unfortunately I am in hospital with limited wifi access so can't post images but there are some key issues.
Currently it is a major traffic route with lorries, trucks and cars approaching a large space from 4 directions. Because there are no kerbs cars and delivery vans park across access routes near buildings used by pedestrians who are not crossing. There is also a church on one corner where cars regularly park across actively used pedestrian routes. The signage indicates a pedestrianised area but is not very prominent and not understandable to traffic not used to such 'shared space" areas.
There are no safe controlled crossing points that can be used by visually impaired people, people with mobility impairments or children so although traffic is not moving very fast there is no guarantee that traffic will see you and stop and it is not an equal rlationship between a moving vehicle and a person.
The suggested crossing areas use pale pinkish (from memory) paving which is nowhere near even the recommended 50% contrast in the tactile paving consultation and where maintenance has been done on the general surface area, some of these stones have been used ensuring there are no clear visual clues for traffic or pedestrians.
Further down a shared space road where cars enter and exit car parks and delivery areas across pedestrian routes with no tactile warnings, there is also a junction with a supermarket where there is the most confusing and illogical mix of tactile and visual surfaces that drivers and pedestrians regularly report problems to the council.
Assessing the "success" of these areas depends on the criteria. If visually impaired people avoid using these areas and are then excluded, they usually have no voice. This is the case in Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester where shared space includes tram tracks with no safe crossing points. Like Jane I understand that it has been considered a success in traffic management but we should be supporting safe environments for everyone.
My own view is that no shared space is safe without kerbs and barriers between traffic and pedestrians, including management of deliveries and parking and the provision of safe controlled crossing points.
Another example of hazardous use of shared space is in Old Mill Street in Manchester referenced with images in an article on localism in the Urban Design Journal Jos Townend and I wrote a couple of years ago.
There have been some attempts to use shared space in residential areas especially in Holland I think but local organisations of blind and partially sighted people have reported problems even there unless there are clear safe routes and people can have confidence in using crossings.
We would be opposed to shared space without many more safeguards and managed to get an agreement with Manchester CC not to add any more Zebra crossings without consultations with disabled people's organisations tho not sure they are keeping to the agreement!
Best wishes
Flick
Manchester Disabled People's Access Group
Sorry Marcus have to disagree Poynton is not a successful shared space, it
> is a successful traffic management system. I was talking to one of the
> engineers involved in the project last week. It has worked in
> improving traffic flow but is dangerous for those with little sight and others.
> Regarding exhibition road I was there with some members of our Access
> Association and a couple tried it out, by walking out into the
> traffic. It failed, there is also confusion as doormen at a hotel were
> chastising a taxi driver for not using the road. It is in essence a
> road with a very large pavement on one side, but lacks any suitable
> crossing.
>
>
>
> Shared spaces should be used very sparingly and are only suitable for
> no through roads. Most aspects that need to be considered are common
> sense such as, the use of tactile should reflect national standards
> not as in Exhibition Road or Leek, grouping of furniture, no bollards,
> cameras to reduce speeding, etc, etc.
>
>
>
> Can I suggest you look at the documents (link below) from guide dogs.
> There
> has been some useful research into what works and doesn't for visually
> impaired and blind people.
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/supportus/campaigns/streets-ahead/inform
> ation-
> for-street-designers-and-councils/reference-documents/#.Vlx9qVhsh6A>
> https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/supportus/campaigns/streets-ahead/informa
> tion-f
> or-street-designers-and-councils/reference-documents/#.Vlx9qVhsh6A
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> T: 00 44 1484 423501
>
> M: 00 44 7777607239
>
> <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
>
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42 This
> e-mail is
>
> for the addressee only. The information contained in it and any
> attachments
>
> are confidential and may be privileged. If you have received this
> e-mail in
>
> error, please notify us immediately. You are not authorized to, and
> must not
>
> disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part of it.
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Ormerod Marcus
> Sent: 02 December 2015 08:20
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> The Park Lane Poynton scheme has prominent and nicely presented signs
> at the entry of each point that it is a shared space and that
> pedestrians have equal priority, which does help.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Professor Marcus Ormerod
>
> SURFACE Inclusive Design Research Group
>
> Room 423 Maxwell Building
>
> The University of Salford
>
> M5 4WT
>
> Tel 0161 295 5405
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Anthony Rylands <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Reply-To: Accessibuilt list <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Date: Wednesday, 2 December 2015 08:04
> To: Accessibuilt list <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Vin. I'm impressed tackling Shared Space at such an early hour of the
> working day..
>
>
>
> I saw the infamous Exhibition Road for the first time on Saturday. It
> seemed to operate just like a normal road except the kerbs are now
> marked by tactile paving. The overall paving affect is just plain
> confusing.
>
>
>
> I think the point Brenda has made here is an important one. It's how
> drivers react when they enter the area and which road you pick which
> is important.
> In exhibition Road there is nothing to suggest that its anything
> different from where you've just come from or where you're going. The
> pedestrians are mainly strangers to the area and so treat it as a
> traditional city street and that's important too.
>
>
>
>
>
> Anthony Rylands
> Access Officer for Disabled People
> Corporate Services
> North Somerset Council
>
> Tel: 01934 634989 or 07917 092785
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Post: Town Hall, Walliscote Grove Road, Weston-super-Mare,
> BS23 1UJ
> Web: <http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/> www.n-somerset.gov.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Vinnie Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 6:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> That's it Brenda, you've hit the nail on the head.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Vinnie
>
> On 01/12/2015 10:29 pm, "brenda puech" <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
>
> Where you have low motor traffic volumes and speeds, not having high
> kerbs, or any kerbs, can help people cross informally and can redress
> the balance between motorists and pedestrians. You still obviously
> need protected pedestrian only spaces with tactile paving to delineate
> them, and would also need controlled crossings in some locations.
>
> Broadway Market in Hackney is an example of where the council levelled
> this narrow road keeping corduroy warning paving to the edge of the
> footway. It originally had high narrow footways. Now shops, bars and
> restaurants border a street where pedestrians spill out onto and
> dominate the road and cars slow down. It's not perfect, but works
> better than when footways were high and narrow. There is no need for
> controlled crossings here.
>
>
>
> Leonard Circus in Hackney is another example of a shared space where
> the footway around the circus is raised, but the space between is
> populated with seating and food stalls so that pedestrians dominate
> the space at least in the summer months and cars thread their way
> through slowly (most of the
> time...) Those who prefer a higher footway can walk safely around the
> perimeter of the circus with side road crossings clearly delineated
> with tactile paving.
>
>
>
> New Road in Brighton is another good example. It is a short link that
> is not used by many vehicles as there are many other parallel links,
> and people spill out and use the space with the very occasional
> vehicle slowly inching its way through, which is how it should be.
>
>
>
> http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/professionals/better-street-design-and
> -manag ement/recreate-the-street/case-study-making-a-place-out
>
>
>
>
>
> My feeling is that the focus should be to tame the drivers of motor
> vehicle and prioritise the pedestrian in most city centre locations.
> You have to sort out traffic problems before you can ask pedestrians
> to be more confident and take over a space. Might is right on our
> streets at the moment, and that is what needs to change, so that
> vulnerable road users are treated with care, and don't feel terrorised
> into needing high footways, guardrailing and traffic lights to protect
> them from people driving motor vehicles on streets.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 18:46:13 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Once again guys- it is only the correctly constructed shared spaces
> that I am interested in, and how that has been carried out. Of course
> there are many areas where it is not at all feasible, and many places
> where this has been disregarded and it has been badly implemented.
>
>
>
> If it helps to stop all the answers noting badly shared places and
> helps with answers about positive experiences:
>
> The location I am looking at is one where the streets are small and
> narrow, and in an area that restricts traffic already (on a time
> basis), and the streets are all one-way, no large vehicles are
> allowed, there are no through-ways. The current conditions of the
> roads, paths and spaces are more dangerous despite not being shared as
> pedestrians must walk in the street without priority. The key here is
> in creating a proper, safe, shared space that could work for the
> pedestrians where it currently does not.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Vinnie M Hall
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Vincent West
> Sent: Tuesday 1 December 2015 18:36
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Shared Space is subject to a fundamental flaw that makes the concept
> discriminatory and in fact dangerous.
>
> The principle of the approach is that everyone using the shared space
> 'negotiates' agreement over priority with everyone else. That concept
> is fine so long as vehicles are moving forwards and pedestrians can
> see, hear and understand the negotiation but as soon as you include
> impatient drivers in the mix or pedestrians who see, hear, move or
> understand less than perfectly it becomes so dangerous that disabled
> people simply no longer go into towns that they have used and loved
> for many years.
>
> If you add to that one of the other principles of removing all changes
> in level by doing away with kerbs you also remove the very indicators
> that guide dogs use to keep their owners safe. Without a kerb a guide
> dog will take its owner straight into the vehicle area where traffic
> is expecting to move because the dog has been trained to understand
> that pavement is safe and roads are dangerous but it uses the kerb to
> tell the difference between the two surfaces.
>
>
>
> Shared Space is not about 'sharing' because it quite simply excludes
> disabled people. Motor vehicles are big, heavy and dangerous and
> SHOULD be controlled by kerbs, railings, traffic signs etc. If
> disabled people, older people and children are asked to share spaces
> with bunnies and lambs I have no objection beyond ensuring that the
> manure is regularly cleaned up to avoid slipping - but cars are not
> bunnies!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Vin
>
>
>
> Vin West
>
> Chair
>
> Arfon Access Group
>
> 01286880761
>
> 07771536760
>
> Glyn Dwr
>
> Llandwrog Uchaf
>
> Caernarfon
>
> LL54 7RA
>
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2015, at 18:06, Maria Zedda <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh dear!!!
>
> Maria
> Maria Zedda
> Accessibility Services
> Shaw Trust
> Sent from my BlackBerry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> -----------------------------------
> The content of this message including any expressed opinions are those
> of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of Shaw Trust.
> Shaw Trust does not take any responsibility for the views or opinions
> expressed within the content of this message. This message is intended
> solely for the recipients named above. If you have received this
> message in error, please delete it immediately and do not disclose its
> contents to anyone without the sender's consent.
>
>
> From: Jane Simpson Access [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 06:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
> Lord Holmes apparently said what shared spaces needs are kerbs!
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> RIBA & NRAC Consultant
>
> T: 01484 423501
>
> M: 07777 607239
>
> <image007.png>: @JSAccess07
>
> <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
> <image008.png>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42
>
> This e-mail is for the addressee only. The information contained in it
> and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you
> have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately. You
> are not authorized to, and must not disclose, copy, distribute or
> retain this e-mail or any part of it.
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Jane Simpson Access
> Sent: 01 December 2015 17:47
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Not sure you should be supporting it. See seaforchange video below,
> Sarah I didn't want to share all your information but you may want me
> to, let me know.
>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOObDPOSm-g&app=desktop>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOObDPOSm-g&app=desktop
>
>
>
> It is being debated in the house of lords on Thursday not sure what
> time will post when I found out.
>
>
>
> Any research would be useful as BSI is currently looking into a new
> external environments BS.
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> RIBA & NRAC Consultant
>
> T: 01484 423501
>
> M: 07777 607239
>
> <image005.png>: @JSAccess07
>
> <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
> <image006.png>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42
>
> This e-mail is for the addressee only. The information contained in it
> and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. If you
> have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately. You
> are not authorized to, and must not disclose, copy, distribute or
> retain this e-mail or any part of it.
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Vinnie M Hall
> Sent: 01 December 2015 17:03
> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
> Subject: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I discovered recently as part of the Draft Development Plan for Dublin
> City Centre that the concept of 'shared spaces' that allow for
> pedestrian and other forms of traffic in one place, with appropriate
> prioritisation, is actually proscribed by law in Ireland.
>
>
>
> So, I am looking for examples of alternative styles of sharing spaces,
> and studies or supporting documentation that shows how it may be
> successful, that may help me sell the idea to the local authority here
> in Dublin, and further allow them to push for a change in legislation.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions, pointers or information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Vinnie M Hall
>
>
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> <http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk/>
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html>
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> <http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk/>
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html>
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> <http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk/>
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html>
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html ----------End of
> Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information on research,
> teaching and consultancy: <http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk/>
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html>
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
>
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> _____
>
> Keeping in touch
>
> Visit <http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/> www.n-somerset.gov.uk for
> information about our services
>
> Council Connect: for all streets, open spaces and environmental
> protection enquiries visit <http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/connect>
> www.n-somerset.gov.uk/connect
> Care Connect: for all adult social services enquiries visit
> <http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/careconnect>
> www.n-somerset.gov.uk/careconnect
>
> Out of hours emergencies: 01934 622 669
>
> Privacy and confidentiality notice:
>
> The information contained in this email transmission is intended by
> North Somerset Council for the use of the named individual or entity
> to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged
> or otherwise confidential. If you have received this email
> transmission in error, please delete it from your system without
> copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply
> email. Any views expressed within this message or any other associated
> files are the views and expressions of the individual and not North
> Somerset Council. North Somerset Council takes all reasonable
> precautions to ensure that no viruses are transmitted with any
> electronic communications sent, however the council can accept no
> responsibility for any loss or damage resulting directly or indirectly
> from the use of this email or any contents or attachments.
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
> ----------End of Message---------- Run by SURFACE for more information
> on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk Archives for the Accessibuilt
> discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> ----------End of Message----------
> Run by SURFACE for more information on research, teaching and consultancy:
> http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk
> Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
----------End of Message----------
Run by SURFACE for more information on research, teaching and consultancy:
http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk
Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
----------End of Message----------
Run by SURFACE for more information on research, teaching and consultancy:
http://www.surface.salford.ac.uk
Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
|
