Thank you Jane for this. MDPAG members visited Poynton a few months ago
and believe it is one of the most hazardous spaces wd had ever seen.
Unfortunately I am in hospital with limited wifi access so can't post
images but there are some key issues.
Currently it is a major traffic route with lorries, trucks and cars
approaching a large space from 4 directions. Because there are no kerbs
cars and delivery vans park across access routes near buildings used by
pedestrians who are not crossing. There is also a church on one corner
where cars regularly park across actively used pedestrian routes. The
signage indicates a pedestrianised area but is not very prominent and not
understandable to traffic not used to such 'shared space" areas.
There are no safe controlled crossing points that can be used by visually
impaired people, people with mobility impairments or children so although
traffic is not moving very fast there is no guarantee that traffic will
see you and stop and it is not an equal rlationship between a moving
vehicle and a person.
The suggested crossing areas use pale pinkish (from memory) paving which
is nowhere near even the recommended 50% contrast in the tactile paving
consultation and where maintenance has been done on the general surface
area, some of these stones have been used ensuring there are no clear
visual clues for traffic or pedestrians.
Further down a shared space road where cars enter and exit car parks and
delivery areas across pedestrian routes with no tactile warnings, there is
also a junction with a supermarket where there is the most confusing and
illogical mix of tactile and visual surfaces that drivers and pedestrians
regularly report problems to the council.
Assessing the "success" of these areas depends on the criteria. If
visually impaired people avoid using these areas and are then excluded,
they usually have no voice. This is the case in Piccadilly Gardens in
Manchester where shared space includes tram tracks with no safe crossing
points. Like Jane I understand that it has been considered a success in
traffic management but we should be supporting safe environments for
everyone.
My own view is that no shared space is safe without kerbs and barriers
between traffic and pedestrians, including management of deliveries and
parking and the provision of safe controlled crossing points.
Another example of hazardous use of shared space is in Old Mill Street in
Manchester referenced with images in an article on localism in the Urban
Design Journal Jos Townend and I wrote a couple of years ago.
There have been some attempts to use shared space in residential areas
especially in Holland I think but local organisations of blind and
partially sighted people have reported problems even there unless there
are clear safe routes and people can have confidence in using crossings.
We would be opposed to shared space without many more safeguards and
managed to get an agreement with Manchester CC not  to add any more Zebra
crossings without consultations  with disabled people's organisations tho
not sure they are keeping to the agreement!
Best wishes
Flick
Manchester Disabled People's Access Group



Sorry Marcus have to disagree Poynton is not a successful shared space, it
> is a successful traffic management system. I was talking to one of the
> engineers involved in the project last week. It has worked in improving
> traffic flow but is dangerous for those with little sight and others.
> Regarding exhibition road I was there with some members of our Access
> Association and a couple tried it out, by walking out into the traffic. It
> failed, there is also confusion as doormen at a hotel were chastising a
> taxi
> driver for not using the road. It is in essence a road with a very large
> pavement on one side, but lacks any suitable crossing.
>
>
>
> Shared spaces should be used very sparingly and are only suitable for no
> through roads. Most aspects that need to be considered are common sense
> such
> as, the use of tactile should reflect national standards not as in
> Exhibition Road or Leek, grouping of furniture, no bollards, cameras to
> reduce speeding, etc, etc.
>
>
>
> Can I suggest you look at the documents (link below) from guide dogs.
> There
> has been some useful research into what works and doesn't for visually
> impaired and blind people.
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/supportus/campaigns/streets-ahead/information-
> for-street-designers-and-councils/reference-documents/#.Vlx9qVhsh6A>
> https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/supportus/campaigns/streets-ahead/information-f
> or-street-designers-and-councils/reference-documents/#.Vlx9qVhsh6A
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> T: 00 44 1484 423501
>
> M: 00 44 7777607239
>
>  <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
>
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG  Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42 This e-mail
> is
>
> for the addressee only. The information contained in it and any
> attachments
>
> are confidential and may be privileged. If you have received this e-mail
> in
>
> error, please notify us immediately. You are not authorized to, and must
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>
> disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part of it.
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Ormerod Marcus
> Sent: 02 December 2015 08:20
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> The Park Lane Poynton scheme has prominent and nicely presented signs at
> the
> entry of each point that it is a shared space and that pedestrians have
> equal priority, which does help.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Professor Marcus Ormerod
>
> SURFACE Inclusive Design Research Group
>
> Room 423 Maxwell Building
>
> The University of Salford
>
> M5 4WT
>
> Tel 0161 295 5405
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Anthony Rylands <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Reply-To: Accessibuilt list <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Date: Wednesday, 2 December 2015 08:04
> To: Accessibuilt list <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Vin. I'm impressed tackling Shared Space at such an early hour of the
> working day..
>
>
>
> I saw the infamous Exhibition Road for the first time on Saturday. It
> seemed
> to operate just like a normal road except the kerbs are now marked by
> tactile paving. The overall paving affect is just plain confusing.
>
>
>
> I think the point Brenda has made here is an important one. It's how
> drivers
> react when they enter the area and which road you pick which is important.
> In exhibition Road there is nothing to suggest that its anything different
> from where you've just come from or where you're going. The pedestrians
> are
> mainly strangers to the area and so treat it as a traditional city street
> and that's important too.
>
>
>
>
>
> Anthony Rylands
> Access Officer for Disabled People
> Corporate Services
> North Somerset Council
>
> Tel:                 01934 634989 or 07917 092785
> E-Mail:            [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Post:               Town Hall, Walliscote Grove Road, Weston-super-Mare,
> BS23 1UJ
> Web:              <http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/> www.n-somerset.gov.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Vinnie Hall
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 6:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> That's it Brenda, you've hit the nail on the head.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Vinnie
>
> On 01/12/2015 10:29 pm, "brenda puech" <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
>
> Where you have low motor traffic volumes and speeds, not having high
> kerbs,
> or any kerbs, can help people cross informally and can redress the balance
> between motorists and pedestrians.  You still obviously need protected
> pedestrian only spaces with tactile paving to delineate them, and would
> also
> need controlled crossings in some locations.
>
> Broadway Market in Hackney is an example of where the council levelled
> this
> narrow road keeping corduroy warning paving to the edge of the footway. It
> originally had high narrow footways. Now shops, bars and restaurants
> border
> a street where pedestrians spill out onto  and dominate the road and cars
> slow down.  It's not perfect, but works better than when footways were
> high
> and narrow. There is no need for controlled crossings here.
>
>
>
> Leonard Circus in Hackney is another example of a shared space where the
> footway around the circus is raised, but the space between is populated
> with
> seating and food stalls so that pedestrians dominate the space at least in
> the summer months and cars thread their way through slowly (most of the
> time...)  Those who prefer a higher footway can walk safely around the
> perimeter of the circus with side road crossings clearly delineated with
> tactile paving.
>
>
>
> New Road in Brighton is another good example. It is a short link that is
> not
> used by many vehicles as there are many other parallel links, and people
> spill out and use the space with the very occasional vehicle slowly
> inching
> its way through, which is how it should be.
>
>
>
> http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/professionals/better-street-design-and-manag
> ement/recreate-the-street/case-study-making-a-place-out
>
>
>
>
>
> My feeling is that the focus should be to tame the drivers of motor
> vehicle
> and prioritise the pedestrian in most city centre locations.  You have to
> sort out traffic problems before you can ask pedestrians to be more
> confident and take over a space. Might is right on our streets at the
> moment, and that is what needs to change, so that vulnerable road users
> are
> treated with care, and don't feel terrorised into needing high footways,
> guardrailing and traffic lights to protect them from people driving motor
> vehicles on streets.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 18:46:13 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Once again guys- it is only the correctly constructed shared spaces that I
> am interested in, and how that has been carried out.  Of course there are
> many areas where it is not at all feasible, and many places where this has
> been disregarded and it has been badly implemented.
>
>
>
> If it helps to stop all the answers noting badly shared places and helps
> with answers about positive experiences:
>
> The location I am looking at is one where the streets are small and
> narrow,
> and in an area that restricts traffic already (on a time basis), and the
> streets are all one-way, no large vehicles are allowed, there are no
> through-ways.  The current conditions of the roads, paths and spaces are
> more dangerous despite not being shared as pedestrians must walk in the
> street without priority. The key here is in creating a proper, safe,
> shared
> space that could work for the pedestrians where it currently does not.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Vinnie M Hall
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Vincent West
> Sent: Tuesday 1 December 2015 18:36
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Shared Space is subject to a fundamental flaw that makes the concept
> discriminatory and in fact dangerous.
>
> The principle of the approach is that everyone using the shared space
> 'negotiates' agreement over priority with everyone else. That concept is
> fine so long as vehicles are moving forwards and pedestrians can see, hear
> and understand the negotiation but as soon as you include impatient
> drivers
> in the mix or pedestrians who see, hear, move or understand less than
> perfectly it becomes so dangerous that disabled people simply no longer go
> into towns that they have used and loved for many years.
>
> If you add to that one of the other principles of removing all changes in
> level by doing away with kerbs you also remove the very indicators that
> guide dogs use to keep their owners safe. Without a kerb a guide dog will
> take its owner straight into the vehicle area where traffic is expecting
> to
> move because the dog has been trained to understand that pavement is safe
> and roads are dangerous but it uses the kerb to tell the difference
> between
> the two surfaces.
>
>
>
> Shared Space is not about 'sharing' because it quite simply excludes
> disabled people. Motor vehicles are big, heavy and dangerous and SHOULD be
> controlled by kerbs, railings, traffic signs etc. If disabled people,
> older
> people and children are asked to share spaces with bunnies and lambs I
> have
> no objection beyond ensuring that the manure is regularly cleaned up to
> avoid slipping - but cars are not bunnies!
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Vin
>
>
>
> Vin West
>
> Chair
>
> Arfon Access Group
>
> 01286880761
>
> 07771536760
>
> Glyn Dwr
>
> Llandwrog Uchaf
>
> Caernarfon
>
> LL54 7RA
>
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> On 1 Dec 2015, at 18:06, Maria Zedda <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh dear!!!
>
> Maria
> Maria Zedda
> Accessibility Services
> Shaw Trust
> Sent from my BlackBerry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
> The content of this message including any expressed opinions are those of
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> Trust does not take any responsibility for the views or opinions expressed
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> From: Jane Simpson Access [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 06:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
> Lord Holmes apparently said what shared spaces needs are kerbs!
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> RIBA & NRAC Consultant
>
> T:  01484 423501
>
> M: 07777 607239
>
> <image007.png>: @JSAccess07
>
>  <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
> <image008.png>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG  Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42
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> This e-mail is for the addressee only. The information contained in it
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>   _____
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>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Jane Simpson Access
> Sent: 01 December 2015 17:47
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Not sure you should be supporting it. See seaforchange video below, Sarah
> I
> didn't want to share all your information but you may want me to, let me
> know.
>
>
>
>  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOObDPOSm-g&app=desktop>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOObDPOSm-g&app=desktop
>
>
>
> It is being debated in the house of lords on Thursday not sure what time
> will post when I found out.
>
>
>
> Any research would be useful as BSI is currently looking into a new
> external
> environments BS.
>
>
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
>
> Jane Simpson
>
> RIBA & NRAC Consultant
>
> T:  01484 423501
>
> M: 07777 607239
>
> <image005.png>: @JSAccess07
>
>  <http://www.janesimpsonaccess.com/> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
> <image006.png>
>
>
>
> Registered address: New House Bungalow, New House Road, Sheepridge,
> Huddersfield, HD2 1EG  Company No 6559802, VAT No 930 0839 42
>
> This e-mail is for the addressee only. The information contained in it
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> received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately. You are not
> authorized to, and must not disclose, copy, distribute or retain this
> e-mail or any part of it.
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>
>   _____
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Accessibuilt list [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Vinnie M Hall
> Sent: 01 December 2015 17:03
> To:  <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
> Subject: "Shared Spaces'
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I discovered recently as part of the Draft Development Plan for Dublin
> City
> Centre that the concept of 'shared spaces' that allow for pedestrian and
> other forms of traffic in one place, with appropriate prioritisation, is
> actually proscribed by law in Ireland.
>
>
>
> So, I am looking for examples of alternative styles of sharing spaces, and
> studies or supporting documentation that shows how it may be successful,
> that may help me sell the idea to the local authority here in Dublin, and
> further allow them to push for a change in legislation.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions, pointers or information would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> Vinnie M Hall
>
>
>
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