Dear Klaus,
Thank you for your reply.
I just have to say... follow the yellow brick road!
Seriously, what I am going on about exists on the realm of theoretical possibility.
I am not claiming that machines *can* design (in the present tense); I am claiming that it is possible for an hypothetical machine to design, if it is able to gather suficient knowledge from the problem domain, draw analogies to previous data, and fit problems to solutions.
I don't remember the early chess playing automata because it was a couple centuries before I was born (*sarcasm*). I almost resent that you mention this type of thing in your reply, because it has nothing to do with the line of reasoning I have been developing in this thread, and because I made a few substantial remarks and posed a few pertinent questions that remain unanswered (though you labeled some as "interesting"). It's a bit disappointing.
Now, like any designer worth his salt, I turn the question around:
— anyone who claims humans can design owes us a demonstration that they can do it on their own, without any hidden help...
Can you snatch Mowgli from the jungle, dump him in a design firm, and expect him to start churning out designs? I don't think so. Not even if you get him a crash course in "Design Thinking".
The truth of the matter is: every designer is standing on the shoulders of giants. To expect that a machine version of a designer would not... that would be complete and utter nonsense, at the very least; sheer intellectual dishonesty, at the most.
Come to think of it, the problem with this discussion might actually be that many of us are not aware that "we're not in Kansas anymore..."
PS: As this is a mailing list with world-wide participation, we might not share the same cultural context. So, if you find this message contains obscure references you can't decode, it is either because you have not watched the 1939 movie "The Wizard of Oz", or because you are a machine. If you are a machine, please send me an email to [log in to unmask] so that we can discuss the details of our future partnership in world-domination by design.
Best regards to all carbon-based life forms and other sentient beings,
==================================
Carlos Pires
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Design & New Media MFA // Communication Design PhD Student @ FBA-UL
Check the project blog:
http://thegolemproject.com
On 14/09/2015, at 18:30, Klaus Krippendorff wrote:
> that's the point,
> carlos.
>
> someone who claims machines could design owes us a demonstration that it can do it on its own -- without hidden help from humans.
> -- remember the early chess playing automata in which the opposing player was hidden underneath the table !
>
> yes, designers need to be part of the culture in which they work. machines are essentially context insensitive except for specified inputs.
>
> klaus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carlos Pires
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:01 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: can machines design?
>
> On 2015-09-14 18:06, Klaus Krippendorff wrote:
>> ...
>> Coming back to this thread: for machines to be able to design
>> something requires them to not merely compute permutations of what
>> exists but to pursue visions that go beyond the space of possibilities
>> within which they are designed to operate - without further
>> interaction with other designers or people more generally.
>>
>> Klaus
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
>
> Dear Klaus,
>
> I think you are right, but I also think that pursuing visions "without further interaction with other designers or people" is something not even human designers do.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> ==================================
> Carlos Pires
>
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Design & New Media MFA // Communication Design PhD Student @ FBA-UL
>
> Check the project blog:
> http://thegolemproject.com
>
>
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