(whistles)!
Bill
On Tue, Mar 17th, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> As to what we work with, I've been working in my head on a list of things
> that poetry does NOT require. So far, I've got this (a partial list, and,
> anyone who'd like to add, please feel free to do so; if you'd like to
> argue, just include me out):
>
> words, sentences, paragraphs, stanzas, meter, rhyme, images, metaphors . .
> .
>
> Hal
>
> "*Vraiment*,
> Poetry can be so many more things
> Than what people mostly believe it is."
>
> --Anselm Hollo
>
> Halvard Johnson
> ================
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/Remains-To-Be-Seen-Works/dp/1933132787/ref=sr_1_1?
ie=UTF8&qid=1367618323&sr=8-1&keywords=Halvard+Johnson>
> Trapeze <http://issuu.com/swirlmag/docs/halvard_johnson> <--- Newest!
> Junkyard Dog
> <http://gradientbooks.blogspot.fi/2015/01/halvard-johnson-junkyard-dog.html>
> <--- New!
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > 'convincing' is good, Max.
> >
> > As to the sincerity Andrew was talking about, I don't know; sure we
> write
> > sometimes about what happened to us or others; narrative poems depend
> on
> > that i guess.
> >
> > I always think of Northop Frye on Milton's 'Lycidas,' a poem that first
> > appeared with many others in a book of elegies, but is really the only
> one
> > still read (if only in grad seminars). Frye's point was that Milton was,
> of
> > all who wrote, the leaf close to the man elegized, & that his
> 'sincerity'
> > was very much in doubt, if demean by that how sincerely he felt about
> the
> > loss; but how sincerely he felt about the poem he was writing? How
> > 'sincerely' it;s unfolding rope etc strike readers? Ah, a different
> story.
> >
> > So, with Tim, I come back to the 'fact' that words are what we work with
> &
> > it's in them, in how they go together that our writing comes.
> >
> > I also recall, & still agree, with Robert Creeley's statement, to the
> > effect, that he writes what is given to him, not to some predetermined
> > concept ...
> >
> > Doug
> > On Mar 16, 2015, at 11:42 AM, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > As in Hollywood, sincerity in poetry is easily faked.
> > >
> > > "*Vraiment*,
> > > Poetry can be so many more things
> > > Than what people mostly believe it is."
> > >
> > > --Anselm Hollo
> > >
> > > Halvard Johnson
> > > ================
> > >
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > <
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/Remains-To-Be-Seen-Works/dp/1933132787/ref=sr_1_1?
ie=UTF8&qid=1367618323&sr=8-1&keywords=Halvard+Johnson
> > >
> > > Trapeze <http://issuu.com/swirlmag/docs/halvard_johnson> <---
> Newest!
> > > Junkyard Dog
> > > <
> >
> http://gradientbooks.blogspot.fi/2015/01/halvard-johnson-junkyard-dog.html
> > >
> > > <--- New!
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Tim Allen <
> > > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Can't let this pass. 'Slippery fish' sincerity certainly is,
> especially
> > >> when used in the same sentence with 'true facts'.
> > >>
> > >> I wanted to come in on this when Bill said that thing about a word
> must
> > >> never precede an idea, something which is not just problematic but
> > probably
> > >> impossible- but I never because it gets into that tricky realm of
> > whether
> > >> ideas are always made of words and if not what? pictures, feelings
> etc -
> > >> but then when pictures or feelings get transferred into ideas don't
> > words
> > >> get involved? - don't go there, it's a swamp. So I didn't. I know
> that
> > if I
> > >> sat around waiting for an 'idea' before writing a poem I might have
> > written
> > >> about 20 poems in my life instead of 2000 etc - mind you, they might
> be
> > 20
> > >> very long poems.
> > >>
> > >> Seriously though, sincerity is a real sod to talk about in relation
> to
> > >> poetry. The multiplicity of voices and tricks of utterance that are
> > >> involved in poetry (never mind the variety of functions that poetry
> can
> > >> perform) make the normal meaning of sincerity meaningless, and that
> > >> includes the kind of sincerity that Andrew seems to be referring to.
> > >>
> > >> Sincerity in poetry is something else, something that has nothing to
> do
> > >> with 'true facts', whatever they are.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers
> > >>
> > >> Tim A.
> > >>
> > >> On 16 Mar 2015, at 05:06, Andrew Burke wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Oh what a slippery fish sincerity is when speaking of creativity.
> For
> > my
> > >>> practice, the 'true facts' are my basic sincerity, as I see them or
> > >>> remember them, written in plain language
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > Douglas Barbour
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation
> 2
> > (UofAPress).
> > Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
> >
> > There is no life that does not rise
> > melodic from scales of the marvelous.
> >
> > To which our grief refers.
> >
> > Robert Duncan.
> >
>
>
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