Sorry Julian, can you produce any evidence its a forgery? If the unions in question publish it I tend to believe them not some blogger who produces a pack of lies about individuals and unions he knows nothing about.
Chris
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Wells <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:04:02
To: Chris Ford<[log in to unmask]>; Alan Freeman<[log in to unmask]>
Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Independent Unions Banned by Russian Seperatists in LNR
The people of the Donbass appear to face an unpalatable choice between rival gangs of oligarchs. In the circumstances, it is not unreasonable to choose the gang who will at least allow one to speak one's native language.
As to the matter in hand, Chris's method of verifying evidence is akin to accepting the Titchborne Claimant's case on the basis of the photographs flourished by his supporters.
Julian
On 23 Feb 2015, at 11:42, Chris Ford wrote:
> Allan,
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> The only evidence it is fake is a rant by this person on his blog which includes smears and lies about Ukrainian unions and individual activists. I tend to rely on the actual trade unions in Ukraine - who have been distributing this document wide in Ukraine. As I am sure you read the Ukrainian trade union sites and are in contact with active trade unionists there you must be aware of this fact.
>
> So perhaps you are the one who should get his facts right.
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> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Freeman <[log in to unmask]>
> To: CPFord <[log in to unmask]>; CAPITAL-AND-CLASS <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 9:13
> Subject: RE: Independent Unions Banned by Russian Seperatists in LNR
>
>
>
> The issue is the statement which you circulated, and which is still on the website you cite, claiming that the independent unions had been banned and specifically that:
>
> “the Order was issued on 20th January 2015 by the Minster of Justice A.V. Shubin entitled: “Concerning the Ban for Registration of Independent Trade Unions on the Territory of the People’s Republic of Luhansk Peoples Republic”.
>
> The only evidence for this claim is a faked document, and no such order has been passed, if the information given to www.newcoldwar.org is correct. In that case, the above claim is false.
>
> If it’s not a fake document, where is it? The republics have websites and there is a legal record of their decisions: you should have no difficulty finding corroborative evidence that this law has been passed. If you can produce it, do let us know.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> From: To complement the journal 'Capital and Class' (ISSN 0 309 8786) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Ford
> Sent: 23 February 2015 01:02
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Independent Unions Banned by Russian Seperatists in LNR
>
>
>
> I think perhaps instead of referring to conspiracy theorists it is perhaps best to rely on the Ukrainian trade unions involved - which is the direct source of the information. The murder, kidnappings and intimidation are well recorded.
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> Chris
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> In a message dated 23/02/2015 02:37:18 GMT Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
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> http://newcoldwar.org/reply-to-the-false-claim-that-trade-unions-are-being-banned-in-luhansk/
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