The first time I read Oliver was Pearl and my reading of him went on from there. Of course I agree about the quality of the early stuff but I would make a strong case for the later as well - it was the later stuff that I read more thoroughly because I was reviewing it in Terrible Work - what about Salvo for Africa - an extraordinary work and one that should have got so much more notice and comment. I never enjoyed Penniless Politics much but don't really know why - certainly not because of the 'politics' - I think I found it a bit flat and too vague or something, I must go back to it.

I don't really know what to say about your contention that Alice had a negative writing influence on him. Their work still seemed to be very much their own to me. I am a huge fan of Alice Notley's poetry and consider her to be one of the very best so maybe that colours my view but could you to give a bit of detail about that 'influence'  - do you mean subject, style, both, or what? The only thing I would say is that I think the general American influence helped to free his work up a bit.

Cheers

Tim

On 12 Dec 2014, at 23:34, Sean Carey wrote:

> I would take the view now that "Penniless Politics" was not a total failure yet I see it as a project that is a good example of an idea best left as an idea. At that stage Douglas was living in America. "Poetry and Narrative In Performance" proceeded it and his Paladin masterpiece emerged in 1990. For me this is a classic as is "Kind" which takes in his work from 1969 onwards. Wendy Mulford published "In the Cave of Suicession" in 1974. This work in its own way is built on Oliver heading into an actual cave with a manual typewriter. What emerged was a stunning poem I am amazed that is not seen as an epic in a multi media sense. Lyrical and surreal and totally buzzing with rhythm. He captures so much in this work to a degree rarely seen in poetry. It puts what he achieved in "The Harmless Building" on to a new level.
> 
> My point in a nutshell is that Oliver should have continued to explore rather than perhaps listen too much to Alice Notley? His work and Notley's on reflection prior to "Penniless Politics" were poles apart. She is a big hitter in her own field Couples who write can often feel a shadow if either is more acclaimed. It is a common problem all through literary history as are relationships within poetic groups or circles literary. Often political parties are lonely hearts clubs and journalists never stop being journalists. Oliver was a working journalist for a lot of his life.
> 
> The later works I feel while impressive never reached the heights of his output in the Paladin and in "Kind". I see the shadow of Notley in the two final books. A harsh judgement but one based on Oliver's own strengths.
> 
> On a final note I regret Douglas did not value the Paul Buck driven writing that was published in Curtains. Given that his own work covered many sexual areas I never saw the logic of not recognising the advances made by Paul Buck.
>