Yeah, well, they’re like Patrick’s pen, my fingers…
I liked it too, but…
all that cold tea….
D
On Nov 26, 2014, at 4:49 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Oh! I liked both typos.Particularly liked cliche version sod modernism
>
> another disappointment as I age
>
> the long dark teatime of the soul
>
> L
>
> On 25 November 2014 at 17:37, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Just to be clear, I need to check before I send: my fingers again betrayed
>> me: 'tied' was meant to be 'tried' or 'did'; & 'sod' = 'of'.
>>
>> Whew.
>>
>> D
>> On Nov 25, 2014, at 3:55 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OK then. Thanks for that. Can't argue. I shall continue to pursue issues,
>>> boojums being extinct due to harpooning
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On 24 November 2014 at 17:57, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The issue for me, L, may be that my fingers tied that when I meant
>>>> something else (whatever it was long gone from my mind); mainly I was
>>>> trying to say that much was happening, some of which 'we' (in
>>>> anglos-american poetries) got one way or another & found ways to use
>> too.
>>>>
>>>> So, I didn't mean 'problematize' although perhaps I should have.
>>>> Certainly, all that happened outside our narrow purview 'troubles' the
>>>> cliché version sod modernism that ignore other languages & cultures..
>>>>
>>>> One of the good things about the Penguin anthology on Modernism was how
>> it
>>>> at least took account of what was happening in most of the major cities
>> in
>>>> Europe...
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>> On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Didn't realise it was an issue for you
>>>>>
>>>>> L
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 16:36, James Cervantes <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the problem here? We all have our stuffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence Upton <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So "stuffing the modernisms of other languages/cultures"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> L.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:59, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff."
>>>>>> (Oh,
>>>>>>>> yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> fun.
>>>>>>>>> When you say:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>>>>>> anglo-centric,
>>>>>>>>> thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem"
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a
>>>>>>>>> complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to
>> write
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have
>> expressed
>>>>>>>> regret
>>>>>>>>> that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer
>>>>>>>> communications!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the
>>>>>> transition
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I
>> haven't
>>>>>>>>> crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really a mere inquiry
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I take your point(s), Lawrence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were
>>>>>>> confused
>>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>>>>> confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts,
>> &
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> his account of the various streams is useful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>>>>>>> anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other
>>>>>>> languages/cultures.
>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>>> someone limited to the English language, I only know such work
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>> translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I
>>>>>>> learned
>>>>>>>>>> most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> other languages through the english language poetics most
>> important
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>> Thus, how I read Celan, for example.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> things I
>>>>>>>>>>> was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply
>>>>>>>>>>> One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my
>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>>>> regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>> to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all
>>>>>>> ira
>>>>>>>>>>> gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples...
>>>>>>>> well,the
>>>>>>>>>>> example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas certainly
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> so ta for that
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>> Work's ok, but there's not always time
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near
>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>>>>> And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped
>>>>>>>>>> tramping
>>>>>>>>>>> around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just
>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who
>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> he's very familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>> and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with
>>>>>> enthusiasms.
>>>>>>>>>>> Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of
>>>>>>>>> Meliville's
>>>>>>>>>>> about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>> I shall read again Moby Dick
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that's all I have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> nice w/e all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [poem of the day from
>>>>>>>>>>>> Poetry Foundation.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Thrush
>>>>>>>>>>>> When Winter's ahead,
>>>>>>>>>>>> What can you read in November
>>>>>>>>>>>> That you read in April
>>>>>>>>>>>> When Winter's dead?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hear the thrush, and I see
>>>>>>>>>>>> Him alone at the end of the lane
>>>>>>>>>>>> Near the bare poplar's tip,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Singing continuously.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it more that you know
>>>>>>>>>>>> Than that, even as in April,
>>>>>>>>>>>> So in November,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Winter is gone that must go?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is all your lore
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to call November November,
>>>>>>>>>>>> And April April,
>>>>>>>>>>>> And Winter Winter--no more?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I know the months all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> And their sweet names, April,
>>>>>>>>>>>> May and June and October,
>>>>>>>>>>>> As you call and call
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I must remember
>>>>>>>>>>>> What died into April
>>>>>>>>>>>> And consider what will be born
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of a fair November;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And April I love for what
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was born of, and November
>>>>>>>>>>>> For what it will die in,
>>>>>>>>>>>> What they are and what they are not,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While you love what is kind,
>>>>>>>>>>>> What you can sing in
>>>>>>>>>>>> And love and forget in
>>>>>>>>>>>> All that's ahead and behind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas 1878-1917
>>>>>>>>>>>> [PF says:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the
>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>> poet
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Frost,
>>>>>>>>>>>> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in
>>>>>> England.
>>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>>>>>>> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years
>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Battle of Arras,
>>>>>>>>>>>> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> press.]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
>>>>>>>> Continuation
>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>> (UofAPress).
>>>>>>>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> that we are only
>>>>>>>>>> as we find out we are
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Charles Olson
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/author/jamescervantes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sleepwalker's Songs: New & Selected Poems.
>>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#sleepwalkerssong
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
>> Continuation 2
>>>> (UofAPress).
>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>>>
>>>> that we are only
>>>> as we find out we are
>>>>
>>>> Charles Olson
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Douglas Barbour
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2
>> (UofAPress).
>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>
>> that we are only
>> as we find out we are
>>
>> Charles Olson
>>
>
Douglas Barbour
[log in to unmask]
Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2 (UofAPress).
Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
that we are only
as we find out we are
Charles Olson
|