The issue for me, L, may be that my fingers tied that when I meant something else (whatever it was long gone from my mind); mainly I was trying to say that much was happening, some of which ‘we’ (in anglos-american poetries) got one way or another & found ways to use too.
So, I didn’t mean ‘problematize’ although perhaps I should have. Certainly, all that happened outside our narrow purview ‘troubles’ the cliché version sod modernism that ignore other languages & cultures..
One of the good things about the Penguin anthology on Modernism was how it at least took account of what was happening in most of the major cities in Europe...
Doug
On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Sorry Didn't realise it was an issue for you
>
> L
>
> On 24 November 2014 at 16:36, James Cervantes <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> What's the problem here? We all have our stuffs.
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So "stuffing the modernisms of other languages/cultures"?
>>>
>>> L.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:59, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff."
>> (Oh,
>>>> yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to
>> make
>>>> fun.
>>>>> When you say:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>> anglo-centric,
>>>>> thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem"
>> or
>>>>> "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a
>>>>> complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to write
>> to
>>>>> Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have expressed
>>>> regret
>>>>> that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer
>>>> communications!
>>>>>
>>>>> If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the
>> transition
>>>> is
>>>>> complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I haven't
>>>>> crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really a mere inquiry
>>>>>
>>>>> L
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]
>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I take your point(s), Lawrence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were
>>> confused
>>>> &
>>>>>> confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts, &
>>>> that
>>>>>> his account of the various streams is useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>>> anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other
>>> languages/cultures.
>>>>> As
>>>>>> someone limited to the English language, I only know such work
>>> through
>>>>>> translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I
>>> learned
>>>>>> most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry
>>> from
>>>>>> other languages through the english language poetics most important
>>> to
>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Thus, how I read Celan, for example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>> On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all
>> the
>>>>>> things I
>>>>>>> was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply
>>>>>>> One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my
>>>> high
>>>>>>> regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but
>> I
>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>> to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all
>>> ira
>>>>>>> gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples...
>>>> well,the
>>>>>>> example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about
>> that
>>>> now.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> Edward Thomas certainly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so ta for that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps
>> out
>>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal
>>> of
>>>>> work
>>>>>>> Work's ok, but there's not always time
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near
>> good
>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>> And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped
>>>>>> tramping
>>>>>>> around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just
>> sort
>>> of
>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who
>> he
>>> is
>>>>> but
>>>>>>> he's very familiar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with
>> enthusiasms.
>>>>>>> Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of
>>>>> Meliville's
>>>>>>> about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided
>>>> that
>>>>>> next
>>>>>>> I shall read again Moby Dick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that's all I have to say
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nice w/e all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]
>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [poem of the day from
>>>>>>>> Poetry Foundation.org]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Thrush
>>>>>>>> When Winter's ahead,
>>>>>>>> What can you read in November
>>>>>>>> That you read in April
>>>>>>>> When Winter's dead?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hear the thrush, and I see
>>>>>>>> Him alone at the end of the lane
>>>>>>>> Near the bare poplar's tip,
>>>>>>>> Singing continuously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it more that you know
>>>>>>>> Than that, even as in April,
>>>>>>>> So in November,
>>>>>>>> Winter is gone that must go?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or is all your lore
>>>>>>>> Not to call November November,
>>>>>>>> And April April,
>>>>>>>> And Winter Winter--no more?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I know the months all,
>>>>>>>> And their sweet names, April,
>>>>>>>> May and June and October,
>>>>>>>> As you call and call
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I must remember
>>>>>>>> What died into April
>>>>>>>> And consider what will be born
>>>>>>>> Of a fair November;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And April I love for what
>>>>>>>> It was born of, and November
>>>>>>>> For what it will die in,
>>>>>>>> What they are and what they are not,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While you love what is kind,
>>>>>>>> What you can sing in
>>>>>>>> And love and forget in
>>>>>>>> All that's ahead and behind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas 1878-1917
>>>>>>>> [PF says:
>>>>>>>> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the
>> American
>>>>> poet
>>>>>>>> Robert Frost,
>>>>>>>> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in
>> England.
>>>> ....
>>>>>>>> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years
>> later
>>>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Battle of Arras,
>>>>>>>> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared
>> for
>>>>>> press.]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
>>>> Continuation
>>>>> 2
>>>>>> (UofAPress).
>>>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that we are only
>>>>>> as we find out we are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles Olson
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/jamescervantes
>>
>> Sleepwalker's Songs: New & Selected Poems.
>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#sleepwalkerssong
>>
>> http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/
>>
>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>>
>
Douglas Barbour
[log in to unmask]
Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2 (UofAPress).
Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
that we are only
as we find out we are
Charles Olson
|
