Oh! I liked both typos.Particularly liked cliche version sod modernism
another disappointment as I age
the long dark teatime of the soul
L
On 25 November 2014 at 17:37, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Just to be clear, I need to check before I send: my fingers again betrayed
> me: 'tied' was meant to be 'tried' or 'did'; & 'sod' = 'of'.
>
> Whew.
>
> D
> On Nov 25, 2014, at 3:55 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > OK then. Thanks for that. Can't argue. I shall continue to pursue issues,
> > boojums being extinct due to harpooning
> >
> > L
> >
> > On 24 November 2014 at 17:57, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The issue for me, L, may be that my fingers tied that when I meant
> >> something else (whatever it was long gone from my mind); mainly I was
> >> trying to say that much was happening, some of which 'we' (in
> >> anglos-american poetries) got one way or another & found ways to use
> too.
> >>
> >> So, I didn't mean 'problematize' although perhaps I should have.
> >> Certainly, all that happened outside our narrow purview 'troubles' the
> >> cliché version sod modernism that ignore other languages & cultures..
> >>
> >> One of the good things about the Penguin anthology on Modernism was how
> it
> >> at least took account of what was happening in most of the major cities
> in
> >> Europe...
> >>
> >> Doug
> >> On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sorry Didn't realise it was an issue for you
> >>>
> >>> L
> >>>
> >>> On 24 November 2014 at 16:36, James Cervantes <
> [log in to unmask]
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What's the problem here? We all have our stuffs.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence Upton <
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So "stuffing the modernisms of other languages/cultures"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> L.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:59, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff."
> >>>> (Oh,
> >>>>>> yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <
> [log in to unmask]
> >>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doug
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to
> >>>> make
> >>>>>> fun.
> >>>>>>> When you say:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
> >>>>>>> anglo-centric,
> >>>>>>> thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem"
> >>>> or
> >>>>>>> "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a
> >>>>>>> complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to
> write
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have
> expressed
> >>>>>> regret
> >>>>>>> that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer
> >>>>>> communications!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the
> >>>> transition
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I
> haven't
> >>>>>>> crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Really a mere inquiry
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> L
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <
> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I take your point(s), Lawrence.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were
> >>>>> confused
> >>>>>> &
> >>>>>>>> confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts,
> &
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> his account of the various streams is useful.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
> >>>>>>>> anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other
> >>>>> languages/cultures.
> >>>>>>> As
> >>>>>>>> someone limited to the English language, I only know such work
> >>>>> through
> >>>>>>>> translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I
> >>>>> learned
> >>>>>>>> most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry
> >>>>> from
> >>>>>>>> other languages through the english language poetics most
> important
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>> me.
> >>>>>>>> Thus, how I read Celan, for example.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Doug
> >>>>>>>> On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <
> >>>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>> things I
> >>>>>>>>> was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply
> >>>>>>>>> One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my
> >>>>>> high
> >>>>>>>>> regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>> wanted
> >>>>>>>>> to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all
> >>>>> ira
> >>>>>>>>> gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples...
> >>>>>> well,the
> >>>>>>>>> example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about
> >>>> that
> >>>>>> now.
> >>>>>>>> But
> >>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas certainly
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> so ta for that
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps
> >>>> out
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>> Work's ok, but there's not always time
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near
> >>>> good
> >>>>>>>> enough.
> >>>>>>>>> And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped
> >>>>>>>> tramping
> >>>>>>>>> around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just
> >>>> sort
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>> inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who
> >>>> he
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>> he's very familiar
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> *
> >>>>>>>>> and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with
> >>>> enthusiasms.
> >>>>>>>>> Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of
> >>>>>>> Meliville's
> >>>>>>>>> about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> next
> >>>>>>>>> I shall read again Moby Dick
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that's all I have to say
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> nice w/e all
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> L
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]
> >>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> [poem of the day from
> >>>>>>>>>> Poetry Foundation.org]
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The Thrush
> >>>>>>>>>> When Winter's ahead,
> >>>>>>>>>> What can you read in November
> >>>>>>>>>> That you read in April
> >>>>>>>>>> When Winter's dead?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I hear the thrush, and I see
> >>>>>>>>>> Him alone at the end of the lane
> >>>>>>>>>> Near the bare poplar's tip,
> >>>>>>>>>> Singing continuously.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Is it more that you know
> >>>>>>>>>> Than that, even as in April,
> >>>>>>>>>> So in November,
> >>>>>>>>>> Winter is gone that must go?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Or is all your lore
> >>>>>>>>>> Not to call November November,
> >>>>>>>>>> And April April,
> >>>>>>>>>> And Winter Winter--no more?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> But I know the months all,
> >>>>>>>>>> And their sweet names, April,
> >>>>>>>>>> May and June and October,
> >>>>>>>>>> As you call and call
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I must remember
> >>>>>>>>>> What died into April
> >>>>>>>>>> And consider what will be born
> >>>>>>>>>> Of a fair November;
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> And April I love for what
> >>>>>>>>>> It was born of, and November
> >>>>>>>>>> For what it will die in,
> >>>>>>>>>> What they are and what they are not,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> While you love what is kind,
> >>>>>>>>>> What you can sing in
> >>>>>>>>>> And love and forget in
> >>>>>>>>>> All that's ahead and behind.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas 1878-1917
> >>>>>>>>>> [PF says:
> >>>>>>>>>> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the
> >>>> American
> >>>>>>> poet
> >>>>>>>>>> Robert Frost,
> >>>>>>>>>> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in
> >>>> England.
> >>>>>> ....
> >>>>>>>>>> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years
> >>>> later
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> Battle of Arras,
> >>>>>>>>>> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared
> >>>> for
> >>>>>>>> press.]
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
> >>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
> >>>>>> Continuation
> >>>>>>> 2
> >>>>>>>> (UofAPress).
> >>>>>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> that we are only
> >>>>>>>> as we find out we are
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Charles Olson
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.amazon.com/author/jamescervantes
> >>>>
> >>>> Sleepwalker's Songs: New & Selected Poems.
> >>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#sleepwalkerssong
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
> >>>>
> >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Douglas Barbour
> >> [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
> Continuation 2
> >> (UofAPress).
> >> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
> >>
> >> that we are only
> >> as we find out we are
> >>
> >> Charles Olson
> >>
> >
>
> Douglas Barbour
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2
> (UofAPress).
> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>
> that we are only
> as we find out we are
>
> Charles Olson
>
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