Just to be clear, I need to check before I send: my fingers again betrayed me: ‘tied’ was meant to be ‘tried’ or ‘did’; & ‘sod’ = ‘of’.
Whew.
D
On Nov 25, 2014, at 3:55 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> OK then. Thanks for that. Can't argue. I shall continue to pursue issues,
> boojums being extinct due to harpooning
>
> L
>
> On 24 November 2014 at 17:57, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> The issue for me, L, may be that my fingers tied that when I meant
>> something else (whatever it was long gone from my mind); mainly I was
>> trying to say that much was happening, some of which 'we' (in
>> anglos-american poetries) got one way or another & found ways to use too.
>>
>> So, I didn't mean 'problematize' although perhaps I should have.
>> Certainly, all that happened outside our narrow purview 'troubles' the
>> cliché version sod modernism that ignore other languages & cultures..
>>
>> One of the good things about the Penguin anthology on Modernism was how it
>> at least took account of what was happening in most of the major cities in
>> Europe...
>>
>> Doug
>> On Nov 24, 2014, at 9:46 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry Didn't realise it was an issue for you
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On 24 November 2014 at 16:36, James Cervantes <[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's the problem here? We all have our stuffs.
>>>>
>>>> - Jim
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Lawrence Upton <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So "stuffing the modernisms of other languages/cultures"?
>>>>>
>>>>> L.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24 November 2014 at 15:59, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff."
>>>> (Oh,
>>>>>> yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to
>>>> make
>>>>>> fun.
>>>>>>> When you say:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>>>> anglo-centric,
>>>>>>> thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem"
>>>> or
>>>>>>> "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a
>>>>>>> complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to write
>>>> to
>>>>>>> Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have expressed
>>>>>> regret
>>>>>>> that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer
>>>>>> communications!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the
>>>> transition
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I haven't
>>>>>>> crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really a mere inquiry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I take your point(s), Lawrence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were
>>>>> confused
>>>>>> &
>>>>>>>> confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts, &
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> his account of the various streams is useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
>>>>>>>> anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other
>>>>> languages/cultures.
>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>> someone limited to the English language, I only know such work
>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I
>>>>> learned
>>>>>>>> most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> other languages through the english language poetics most important
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> Thus, how I read Celan, for example.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>> On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> things I
>>>>>>>>> was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply
>>>>>>>>> One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my
>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>> regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but
>>>> I
>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>> to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all
>>>>> ira
>>>>>>>>> gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples...
>>>>>> well,the
>>>>>>>>> example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about
>>>> that
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas certainly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so ta for that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps
>>>> out
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> Work's ok, but there's not always time
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near
>>>> good
>>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>>>> And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped
>>>>>>>> tramping
>>>>>>>>> around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just
>>>> sort
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who
>>>> he
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> he's very familiar
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>> and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with
>>>> enthusiasms.
>>>>>>>>> Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of
>>>>>>> Meliville's
>>>>>>>>> about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>> I shall read again Moby Dick
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that's all I have to say
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nice w/e all
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [poem of the day from
>>>>>>>>>> Poetry Foundation.org]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Thrush
>>>>>>>>>> When Winter's ahead,
>>>>>>>>>> What can you read in November
>>>>>>>>>> That you read in April
>>>>>>>>>> When Winter's dead?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hear the thrush, and I see
>>>>>>>>>> Him alone at the end of the lane
>>>>>>>>>> Near the bare poplar's tip,
>>>>>>>>>> Singing continuously.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it more that you know
>>>>>>>>>> Than that, even as in April,
>>>>>>>>>> So in November,
>>>>>>>>>> Winter is gone that must go?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or is all your lore
>>>>>>>>>> Not to call November November,
>>>>>>>>>> And April April,
>>>>>>>>>> And Winter Winter--no more?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I know the months all,
>>>>>>>>>> And their sweet names, April,
>>>>>>>>>> May and June and October,
>>>>>>>>>> As you call and call
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must remember
>>>>>>>>>> What died into April
>>>>>>>>>> And consider what will be born
>>>>>>>>>> Of a fair November;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And April I love for what
>>>>>>>>>> It was born of, and November
>>>>>>>>>> For what it will die in,
>>>>>>>>>> What they are and what they are not,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While you love what is kind,
>>>>>>>>>> What you can sing in
>>>>>>>>>> And love and forget in
>>>>>>>>>> All that's ahead and behind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Edward Thomas 1878-1917
>>>>>>>>>> [PF says:
>>>>>>>>>> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the
>>>> American
>>>>>>> poet
>>>>>>>>>> Robert Frost,
>>>>>>>>>> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in
>>>> England.
>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>>>>> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years
>>>> later
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Battle of Arras,
>>>>>>>>>> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared
>>>> for
>>>>>>>> press.]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
>>>>>> Continuation
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> (UofAPress).
>>>>>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that we are only
>>>>>>>> as we find out we are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Charles Olson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/author/jamescervantes
>>>>
>>>> Sleepwalker's Songs: New & Selected Poems.
>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#sleepwalkerssong
>>>>
>>>> http://www.hinchasdepoesia.com/
>>>>
>>>> The Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org
>>>>
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/jamesvcervantes/home
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> Douglas Barbour
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2
>> (UofAPress).
>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>
>> that we are only
>> as we find out we are
>>
>> Charles Olson
>>
>
Douglas Barbour
[log in to unmask]
Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2 (UofAPress).
Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
that we are only
as we find out we are
Charles Olson
|