Chris,
I have worked with Serena Cant at the NHRE quite a bit on our maritime records. There is a great deal to be gained from a close, integrated, process as each of us holds different datasets (especially APs) and both sides can add enhancements. I would see anything terrestrial, such as the wrecks within our dock systems, as being HER responsibility - anything below LWMOT is EH responsibility, especially as there are no authority boundaries beyond this point (so the line between me and the East Riding is arbitrary) - anything on the foreshore is joint responsibility and records need to be coordinated.
To justify the last point - foreshores are fluid, and can change shape and extent literally overnight. They are also affected a great deal by offshore dredging and mineral extractions, which can cause the beach to be de-sanded (is that a word?) exposing further wrecks and features. The closer you get to LWMOT the more fluid is the beach, and a wreck may be below LWMOT one year and above the next.
I would propose that there is an initial co-ordination of records between EH and the HER for the three areas, with the HER being the only one "allowed" to enhance terrestrial records, EH being the only one "allowed" to enhance <LWMOT records, and either side working on foreshore records. Both parties should be able to tell each other when they are working on the dataset(s) and send updated/enhanced records onto each other. This sounds like it takes a lot of time and effort over and above what is normal, but it actually works out quite well and any increase in time needed is more than made up by the quality of resultant records.
As for duplication, as long as the two records hold each other's reference numbers this should not be an issue as the data can then be reconciled very easily by third parties. Attached is a record from my HER, and the corresponding NMR/NHRE record is on the following link - http://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=908482&sort=2&type=&typeselect=c&rational=a&class1=None&period=None&county=None&district=None&parish=None&place=&recordsperpage=10&source=text&rtype=monument&rnumber=908482
You will note that the two records are not identical, each of us holds the data in the format that we find the most useful (for example the NMR/NHRE holds information on the Hydrographic Office data) but they are clearly the same site and each holds the reference number for the other.
Hugh
Hugh Winfield | Archaeologist |
North East Lincolnshire Regeneration Partnership
Origin 1, Europarc, Grimsby, DN37 9TZ
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-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 21 November 2014 10:03
To: Winfield, Hugh
Subject: Re: E Conference Day 5 - AOB
I was quite surprised that there wasn't more discsussion about the maritime data issue - it was one of the things that was considered at the workshop but there we didn't feel we had the right people to answer it. The Isle of Wight was mentioned as a pioneer in maritime HER data - anyone from IOW have any thoughts on EH having primacy in that area (and exactly what area?)
I'd be happy for EH to cover Somerset's maritime "area" but where does it start? At the moment we only record stuff that you get to on foot - but some of that is below mean low water.
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
________________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Nick Boldrini [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 21 November 2014 09:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: E Conference Day 5 - AOB
Morning folks
Thanks to everyone who contributed yesterday.
Slight delay to this as I have had to compose it this morning.
Today is AOB day - there are no planned posts, no particular issues to focus on. The idea is if there is anything that has been raised in the last week that you would like to discuss in more detail - or even just continue discussing - todays the day for it.
With that in mind, I'll just post a bit of a summary of the last week to get things going.
Day 1 was a slow start, but there was discussion about the data flows around OASIS. As a general issue, data flows was also raised later in the week in regard to EH recording their work - so obviously looking at processes and potentially re-engineering them is something that needs to be considered as part of this project (NRHE to HER) as well as the wider Heritage Information Access Strategy (HIAS)
Day 2 - is this project a good idea - there was a broadly positive response to the idea from HER's, though a more cautious response from EH. Issues raised by all included web access, as not all HERS are online, problems around gaps in HER coverage, how data would be fed back to EH for national projects, and the key issue (raised more than once this week) about the need for extra resources for HERs for this project to proceed. There was also some discussion about the access to the associated EH archives and the suggestion of a national central database, similar to PAS.
Day 3 - and we're talking about what would need to be in place for this to happen. Resources come up again. There was some discussion about the EH HIAS Principles, particularly in relation to Maritime records. The idea of a web mapped (or similarly shared) Designation records system was suggested and discussed. Some interesting points were made about Duplication (of data and effort) suggesting that complete eradication of this may not be as necessary as many of us may think, BUT, that it should only happen where there is a strong business case. An alternative data model of a "Virtual Distributed National Record" was also suggested.
Days 4 - this focussed more specifically on how to achieve the main proposal - reconciling the NRHE and HER's. 3 methods were proposed, with method 3 being the clear favourite. Resources mentioned again - but more in the context of those with multiple roles (HER/DM/Countryside Management/Policy) struggling to find time for the HER part.
So overall in terms of the project, there was broad support for it, and definite support for a particular method. Inevitably a number of issues were highlighted which would need resolving purely for this project.
The key thing that has emerged for me is that the reconciling of the NRHE and HER, whilst quite a significant change in itself, helps to highlight wider issues in the sector which need addressing. Whilst obvious, in some ways, some of the suggested solutions - technological, organisational, in terms of how we work - might end up being very different from how things are now. And as part of the current project is to feed into the HIAS, then it is useful for them to be brought up
So on the last day of the conference, I would ask you to rake over any of the discussions which you don't feel answered your concerns effectively, raise any points that you don't think have been covered so far at all, or just post some "If I had infinite resources, this is what I'd do" thoughts to chuck into the mix for the HIAS.
best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Archaeology Section
Design and Historic Environment Team
Planning Service
Regeneration and Economic Development
Durham County Council
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UQ
Tel: 03000 267008
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