yes i saw it.
the urinal was one of duchamp's ‘ready mades’. i recall reading him say that the main idea behind the ‘ready made’ was to select something that could not be seen as either beautiful or ugly, something that escaped the quick categorisations (yes those ‘false values’ you mention) typically focussed on art.
even when art is ‘insulting and dumb’, that is rarely the dominant aim of it. that would make it little more than insulting and dumb. i expect duchamp did not realize how influential the piece would become, of course, but it did so not only because of the luck of the draw but because it’s concept, the logic of it, and its audaciousness, it’s ‘thinking outside the box’ was very much needed and an addition to art at the time. it was dada perfected.
ja
http://vispo.com
> On Nov 12, 2014, at 2:01 AM, Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Jim - don't know if you, or anyone actually, saw my post about conceptual art. However, what you say below is a bit awry re Duchamp. The urinal was meant to be, first and foremost, insulting and dumb. This was Dada. It's aim was not to rejuvenate the art world but to turn the cultural/political world of false values on its head. As I said in my previous post, 'if Duchamp was alive now I think he would laugh himself silly and then go and shoot himself'.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim A.
>
> On 11 Nov 2014, at 23:31, jim andrews wrote:
>
>> When Duchamp submitted the urinal to an art show, I’ll bet there were lots of people who just found it dumb. Or insulting. Or whatever. In other words, they missed the sea change altogether. It went over their head.
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