William Burroughs and Brion Gysin said that their cut up method was simply repeating something from visual art that had been done 50 years earlier. It went on to have some enduring literary influence.
Introducing the sort of thinking associated with conceptual art into the literary realm is very useful indeed.
ja
http://vispo.com
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> The problem with conceptual art is that it's great the first time but doesn't bear a lot of repetition--the concept "conceptual" pretty much takes care of it. Maybe that's why Duchamp didn't go on to exhibit the rest of the standard plumbing fixtures. Repetition in another idiom is still just repetition. That's why people don't find Kenny's stuff dumb so much as boring. The phenomenon of something like stardom based on so little is, on the other hand, interesting.
>
> Regardless, if you find it useful, Jim, it's not for anybody else to say you shouldn't. Beyond that, there's not much to say.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jim andrews <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Nov 11, 2014 6:31 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: non poemy poems
>>
>> Ha. David. I always enjoy what you have to say.
>>
>> When Duchamp submitted the urinal to an art show, I’ll bet there were lots of people who just found it dumb. Or insulting. Or whatever. In other words, they missed the sea change altogether. It went over their head.
>>
>> I think we should be on the lookout for such events in conceptual poetry. Such as publishing whole books that aren’t meant really to be read.
>>
>> ja
>> http://vispo.com
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2014, at 3:01 PM, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> My own problem with 'conceptual poetry' isn't the extension of the notion of poetry, I'm quite happy to find the poetic anywhere, and especially among the garbage, it is rather the alarming lack of concepts. Of almost any kind. It makes me feel like I've voted Liberal Democrat. I do know, have experienced, things which could bear the label 'conceptual poetry', but most of the hysterically ego-assertive stuff that comes out of the North American attention rap rat race seems to be about bids for status in the poetry sphere, or even a flutter eye at funding.
>>>
>>> I know a real conceptual poem: Wittgenstein's 'Philosophical Investigations' begin with a consideration of the word/notion 'Slab'. And then move to 'Bring me the slab'.
>>>
>>> I love a nice stumbling block.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11 November 2014 17:44, Tilla Brading <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> It may be part of this conversation - because I often work across genres - visual poetics / textual artist. Anyway, when I did my Masters, the Art/Design department wouldn't hear of me doing work under their wing ….
>>> Furthermore when I had a small exhibition and said I was a textual artist, was in the programme as working in 'Textiles' ….
>>> Classifications may 'place' work but I'm happy to be displaced …
>>> Tilla
>>>
>>>
>>> Tilla Brading
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2014, at 02:39, jim andrews <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> in visual art, there is no necessity to know how to draw. this does not mean that the ability to draw is outlawed.
>>>
>>> similarly, in poetry, there is no longer any necessity to produce poemy poems whether they are written, spoken, or whatever. natural language is intermedial with other arts and media in much contemporary art. it doesn’t mean that poemy poems are outlawed. again, it’s a matter of poetry having expanded much like the term ‘visual art’ has expanded to comprehend much more than previously.
>>>
>>> and just as, in visual art, we now say ‘of course you don’t need to know how to draw to be a visual artist’, so too will we say ‘of course you don’t need to know how to write poemy poems to be a poet’.
>>>
>>> ja
>>> http://vispo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Joseph Bircumshaw
>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>>> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>>> Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>>> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>>> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
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