|
You're wrong Alexander, both on the specific point about a PhD not having much weight outside of academia and the wider point about the 'point' of knowledge.
Really, I do worry if people inside academia have such a narrowly instrumental idea of what a doctorate is for.
________________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Alexander Hay [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 13 November 2014 19:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
"They don't give you a gap in your CV - it says in big letters "PhD" under the "education" section. it's not like you crawled into a cave and emerged three years later."
Outside of academia, this is not as impressive as you may think.
On 13 November 2014 19:39, Shane Brown (AMA) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
They don't give you a gap in your CV - it says in big letters "PhD" under the "education" section. it's not like you crawled into a cave and emerged three years later.
Meanwhile, I (and I'm sure many others) managed perfectly well on my studentship, thank you very much. Was I rich? No. Did I have more than enough money to survive on? Yes.
Finally, sometimes it doesn't matter whether employers care about life experiences or stimulated minds. Sometimes we do things for us, not for careers or money or CVs or status. If some of us unfortunately have to start our careers from scratch after three years of a PhD, so be it. Those three years of pleasure and achievement are more than worth it. I understand that income and career seem to be of more importance to you - but to some of us living lives to the fullest is of far more interest than spending an extra three years in a job we'd rather not do.
________________________________
From: Alexander Hay [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 13 November 2014 19:26
To: Shane Brown (AMA)
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
The point you are missing is that PhDs don't get you a job in the area you're most likely to be employed in, give you a gap in your CV and don't necessarily translate to non-academic jobs either. It's not anti-intellectual to admit that you may be painting yourself into a corner. More to the point, I'm not sure employers really care about 'life experiences' or 'stimulated minds' - so you're either fighting for a job or having to start from scratch in terms of a career out of academia.
Also, PhD studentships are just enough to subsist on - if you're lucky enough to get enough to pay that rent - so you're skint after 3-4 years too.
On 13 November 2014 19:14, Shane Brown (AMA) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
The point you are missing is that once a PhD is obtained, one does not have to work in academia or even in a related field. Yes, most would like to. And most will, eventually. But rent can be paid by doing other jobs - and you are clearly forgetting that PhD funding pays the rent for three years. Trying to make out you are thinking of the best interests of future PhD candidates is not helping your argument - an argument which seems to be that a PhD only has a use if there is a closely-related job guaranteed afterwards. If you are receiving "cries of anti-intellectualism" then it's because it's at the very heart of what you are writing.
Next thing we know, there will be warnings that youngsters who take a gap year are not gaining anything and are actually depriving themselves of a year in the workplace as well. To hell with life experiences and stimulating the mind - let's all just work our lives away. Right?
________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Alexander Hay [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 13 November 2014 18:59
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
I'm not sure 410 people chasing after a dozen or so jobs (if they're lucky) or trying to apply for jobs they're over-qualified for is something to celebrate. A little honesty is needed about PhDs and what they really mean - retreating behind strawmen and cries of 'anti-intellectualism!' is disingenuous. Being able to pay the rent shouldn't just be a matter of concern for philistines.
On 13 November 2014 17:42, John Richardson (Social Sciences) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Not every body who does a PhD gets a job in academia; not all of them WANT to get a job in academia.
My Dad did a PhD and worked for Boots contract manufacturing.
I know that some academics cannot imagine a life outside of academia - or, perhaps, they imagine an impoverished existence, of someone constantly having to say 'yes I am a doctor, but not that kind of doctor' to folk who don't understand what a PhD is. But really, it is not the end of the world.
Funding 410 PhD studentships over a five year period is a remarkable thing & should be celebrated.
Department of Social Sciences
Loughborough University
Leics, UK, LE11 3TU
Tel: 01509 223361
http://www.freewebs.com/johnrichardson/
Current issue of Critical Discourse Studies:
http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/rcds20/current
________________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Alexander Hay [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 13 November 2014 17:31
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
Doing a PhD for several years takes you out of the job market; it also leads you in a certain direction. You end your course with either a vocation or a big gap in your CV. Also, job openings where you're up against dozens and even hundreds of other candidates, the number of which increases every year.
I am not being 'narrow' in making this point - at some point or another, there needs to be some honesty about what PhDs realistically lead to, and not assuming that wanting a career as well as a doctorate is not, in fact, a dirty word nor a repudiation of the academy.
On 13 November 2014 17:15, <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
I think the more cynical reading would be that in light of various proposed reforms (see the current USS dispute), one is safe to assume that some members of Universities UK are actually doing their very best to ensure that soon there will be plenty of posts to fill across the sector.
But on a serious note, while I am always in favour of discussion on the list and welcome contrary views, I'd reject your narrow definition of a PhD as being limited in its utility to a mere professional qualification.
Among the many things that might be wrong with Higher Education today, a too high level of postgraduate funding is most certainly not one of them.
All Best.
Cornel
Dr Cornel Sandvoss
Senior Lecturer
Department of Sociology
University of Surrey
Guildford
Surrey GU2 7XH
United Kingdom
tel.: + 44/ 1483 / 68 99 59<tel:%2B%2044%2F%201483%20%2F%2068%2099%2059>
http://www.soc.surrey.ac.uk/staff/csandvoss/index.html
________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> on behalf of Alexander Hay <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
Sent: 13 November 2014 16:57
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
And what do they do afterwards?
On 13 November 2014 16:41, Cross, Simon <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
How about them taking pleasure and satisfaction in 3-4 years spent cultivating the life of the mind?
Is this not enough for you?
________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] on behalf of Alexander Hay [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>]
Sent: 13 November 2014 16:06
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students
Not being cynical here (in fact, I am), but how many jobs will there be for the lucky 410 once they've got their PhDs? It's not like jobs in the humanities are two-a-penny now, and heaven knows what state the jobs market will be in another five years' time. Also, this is a decent sized chunk of someone's life here; what do they get out of it at the end? Really?
Regards,
- Alexander Hay
On 13 November 2014 15:30, Jones, Matt <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
Apologies for crossposting
AHRC funding for UK/EU arts and humanities research students: updated invitation
The Midlands3Cities Doctoral Training Partnership will be awarding 410 PhD studentships over a five year period to excellent research students in the arts and humanities. The DTP, a collaboration between De Montfort University and the universities of Nottingham, Nottingham Trent, Leicester, Birmingham and Birmingham City, provides research candidates with cross-institutional mentoring, expert supervision including cross-institutional supervision where appropriate, subject-specific and generic training, and professional support in preparing for a career.
De Montfort University’s Cinema and Television History (CATH) Research Centre in the Leicester Media School is inviting applications from students whose research interests include:
• Film Studies
• Cinema History
• Television History
• Television Studies
• Media Policy
• Women’s Film and Television History
• Television Drama
• British Cinema
• Cult Film
• Heritage Film and Television
• Horror, Crime, Science Fiction and Genre Film and Television
• Silent Cinema
• Star and Celebrity Studies
• Film Exhibition
• Film audiences and fandom
• Hollywood
• Film Funding and Economics
• Screen Acting
The deadline for AHRC funding applications is 14 January 2015, by which time students must have applied for a place to study and have provided two references to a university within the DTP. For full details of eligibility, funding and research supervision areas, please visit www.midlands3cities.ac.uk<http://www.midlands3cities.ac.uk><http://www.midlands3cities.ac.uk/> or contact [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> .
There will be an application writing workshop at De Montfort University on the 26th of November at 16.00-19.00 :
http://www.dmu.ac.uk/research/midlands3cities-dtp/events-and-latest-news/m3c-writing-application-workshop-.aspx.
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER: This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. In this case, please reply to this email to highlight the error. Opinions and information in this email that do not relate to the official business of Nottingham Trent University shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University. Nottingham Trent University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus-free, but we do advise that the recipient should check that the email and its attachments are actually virus free. This is in keeping with good computing practice.
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
|
