Ok I I believe you!
And yes totally agree re DCC
Thanks
Simon
===
Dr Simon Kerridge
Director of Research Services
University of Kent
and Chair of the Association of Research Managers and Administrators
> On 16 Oct 2014, at 08:54, "John Milner" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> What we advocated was a centre of excellence which was to be a development
> of the DCC and the DCC has fulfilled that vision admirably IMHO. We also
> proposed that this organisation might have a repository of last resort in
> due course. Overall we felt that a distributed model would be the best bet,
> since big science was already well served and operations like UKDA and ADS
> existed and were expected to develop (as they have). We considered that the
> closure of AHDS was perverse and was a move against a sensible trend. As we
> hoped a number of institutions have developed RDM services (as opposed to
> mere institutional repositories) and others are moving in that direction.
>
> It's an immensely complex task, but we owe a great debt of gratitude to
> Kevin Ashley and his colleagues and to Simon Hodson and many others who
> worked on the Jisc RDM programme, as well as some of the more enlightened
> funders, that progress continues to be made in a less than comfortable
> economic climate.
>
> John K. Milner
> Mail to: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Research Data Management discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Simon Kerridge
> Sent: 16 October 2014 13:09
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Research data quota takeup
>
> John,
> I am sure that you will know better than me (!), but I thought that the
> UKRDS feasibility study reported that such a national service would be
> practicable and that a 5 year (I think it was) pilot should be set up to
> demonstrate this. I thought the reason that it didn't happen was due to the
> funding cuts then (2009 ish?) rather than practicalities?
>
> Simon
>
> ===
> Dr Simon Kerridge
> Director of Research Services
> University of Kent
> and Chair of the Association of Research Managers and Administrators
>
>>> On 15 Oct 2014, at 14:42, "John Milner" <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We investigated this national service idea a few years ago and decided
>> it wasn't really practical. There are a number of well established
>> discipline based services and national units to develop good practice,
>> most notably DCC. From there we concluded that most practical way
>> forward was institutional repositories using standard tools and common
> good practice.
>> Since then products like Dspace Arkivum and Preservica have all
>> matured and can offer an effective hybrid cloud model for active use,
>> sharing and preservation. There are many other products around now too
>> that can be used if the DCC tools are used to establish policy and
> planning.
>>
>> Janet (Jisc) has been working to get national frameworks for many of
>> these products and will respond to demand, so if you want a product
>> why not use Janet to help with the procurement and then one deal
>> becomes a deal for the whole sector.
>>
>> Hope that helps
>>
>> John
>>
>> John K. Milner
>> Meadow House
>> Baunton
>> Cirencester
>> GL7 7BB
>>
>> Tel 00 44 1285 643731
>> Mob +44 7836 341550
>> Mail to: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Research Data Management discussion list
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anna Clements
>> Sent: 15 October 2014 21:17
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Research data quota takeup
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Couldn't agree more on your plea for national infrastructure RaaS for
>> the long tail stuff which doesn't fit into existing subject specific
>> repositories... although think we need more of the latter too. StaaS ...
>> absolutely .. presumably what Arkivum and others are offering ...
>> assuming we cab get the integration with our existing systems
>> ..dSpace, Pure, etc to work ok,
>>
>> Anna
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Anna Clements | Head of Research Data and Information Services
>>
>> University of St Andrews Library | North Street | St Andrews | KY16
>> 9TR|
>> T:01334 462761 | @AnnaKClements
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Research Data Management discussion list
>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Worthington, William
>> [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 15 October 2014 13:32
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Research data quota takeup
>>
>> All,
>>
>> at University of Hertfordshire (UH) we have been kicking around the
>> RDM problem since JISRCMRD 2011-2013 so I have been watching this
>> discussion with interest as newer heads have come to the table.
>>
>> UH is following the same strategy and approach as put by Aslam at
>> Birmingham. It seems entirely pragmatic when you can not put your arms
>> around the problem.
>>
>> We have acquired ~ 100TB of tier 2 storage which will be backed up to
>> tape for device level recovery only (that is: we won't offer file
>> level recovery to individual users). This doesn't sound like a lot but
>> given the size of our research endeavours it is a good start from
>> which to build a demand driven case for investment. As Tim alluded
>> to, we also have a couple of research groups who could fill this
>> overnight but these are relatively well self served already, and not
>> the target market. I see the big wins in terms of mitigated risk as being
> with Kevin's 90-95%.
>>
>> We also did a DCC DAF audit,
>> http://research-data-toolkit.herts.ac.uk/2012/08/data-asset-survey-res
>> ults/ and although it was a fairly low turnout it was consistent with
>> Tom's account from Nottingham and several other JISCMRD projects, so
>> we were inclined to believe it. Thus, our default offer will be 50GB.
>> However we have established an RDM triage with the PI for each new
>> funded award and if that reveals a greater demand we will accommodate
>> =< 5TB on the basis of need. (I know - we may find the horse has
>> bolted).
>>
>> For archival storage have acquired a smidgeon (10TB) of Arkivum A-stor
>> for
>> 10 years and are bolting it onto our institutional repository (dSpace)
>> in order to support long term preservation of datasets. (Again, if we
>> get crushed in the rush - I see this as a good thing). For reasons too
>> arcane for this discussion this has taken longer than I had hoped, but
>> we are nearly there. But this brings us to an important point - very
>> roughly speaking we will spend 30k on datasets@UHRA including twice on
>> development what we spent with Arkivum. And this before we get into
>> really significant sized data. So to take up Anna's point - can the
>> sector afford this? Even if it can, our experience scales to several
>> million pounds to develop a plethora of different solutions. Seems a
> little inefficient to me.
>>
>>
>> Also on the point of the sustainability of us all doing our own thing
>> - there are two factors here: economy of scale vs. sustainability of
>> the data host. I have heard it expressed that funding bodies regard
>> HEI's as far more stable and likely to be more long lived that any
>> national or domain specific service. Counter this with the benefits of
>> community of a domain specific service and the economies of scale offered
> by a national storage service.
>> (To this RDM geek, it would be great to imagine a storage/archive
>> service equivalent to the JANET network which we could take for
>> granted, like water or air. Sadly, even-toed ungulates donıt fly).
>>
>> The JANET framework agreements are trying to bring some the economies
>> of scale and HEI friendly T & Cs directly to individual HEIs and I
>> think these are a good thing. But they are only part way to storage
>> (StaaS) or repository as a service (RaaS) from which smaller
>> institutions in particular could really take benefit. I made this
>> point at a JANET workshop on storage in 2013 and again recently in a
>> meeting about JISC's upcoming 'Research at Risk' work, which as I
>> understand it, will be service rather than project focused. Just as
>> some of us are taking a punt (a pragmatic approach, in making a
>> tentative offer, to satisfy a nebulous demand, that policy suggests
>> should exist) - so wouldn't it be fantastic to see a (StaaS) or (RaaS)
>> offer at a national level? It might just be wildly successful enough to
> demonstrate demand, cost benefit, and, a sustainable model.
>>
>>
>> Yours, with not enough bytes, Bill
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Dr. W J Worthington
>> University of Hertfordshire
>> T: +44 (0)1707 284000 ext. 77883
>> E: mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15/10/2014 09:30, "Aslam Ghumra (IT Services, Facilities Management)"
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Antony,
>>>
>>> Currently we have 300Tb of replicated and backed up (part of it)
>>> storage as we have two data centres on campus. However this is just
>>> our toe in the water and we will need a lot more storage. We need to
>>> be seen to provide the storage, to create the demand, therefore
>>> oversubscription is the key. We would like to offer all our active
>>> researchers the minimum of 5Tb of free work in progress storage (RDS).
>>> Thatıs a lot of storage, approx. 14Pb ( if my sums are correct),
>>> however this will be phased in, but not to this amount. There will
>>> be have to be a PR exercise in bringing in those projects deemed very
>>> import, which will then be used to leverage further funding from the
>>> University and to try and bring in monies from grant proposals (
>>> however
>> thatıs another issue ).
>>> For Tier1 we won't be using 'cloud' storage, however we may do for Tier2.
>>> We have 210Tb of Tier2 which is co-located at the University of
>>> Nottingham, part of the MidPlus consortium.
>>>
>>> On costs, not sure but we are making the case for a sustained opex
>>> every year to grow the solution. We are also putting the research
>>> data storage on a dedicated research data network, where we can
>>> attach equipment that can dump large quantities of data, to the
>>> extent that large data transfers can be taken off the University 'user'
> network.
>>>
>>> Aslam Ghumra
>>> Research Data Management
>>> T: 0121 414 5877
>>> Skype : JanitorX
>>>
>>> *********************************************************************
>>> **
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:07:27 +0000
>>> From: "Antony Corfield [awc]" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: Research data quota take up
>>>
>>> Hi Aslam, that's quite impressive, so if you have say 100 concurrent
>>> research projects you're able to provide 0.5 Petabytes of (RDS)
>>> storage for free. Does Tier 1 storage include mirroring and nightly
>>> backups or is this 'Cloud' storage and what do you estimate this cost
>>> is to the institution?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Antony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *********************************************************************
>>> **
>> =
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