Thought I'd pitch in as this seems to be rumbling on.
I have to confess I rarely use the listserv but I do subscribe to the digest and occasionally I will take a look and may also find something of value.
The current system does seem to work but I believe a different interface might make a difference - particularly if it was along the lines of one of the many web forums that exist - an example being this one which is fairly typical.
http://www.lfgss.com/
My only reservation though is that this looks like more work to maintain and moderate - who will do that? Also is there sufficient demand - Will there be enough to draw people in to engage and build a community?
Chris Campbell
Principal Consultant
Global Information and Records Management,
Dispute Resolution & Prevention
Legal Central Functions
GSK
980 Great West Road, Brentford, Middlesex, TW8 9GS, United Kingdom
Email [log in to unmask]
Tel +44 20 8047 4534
-----Original Message-----
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK automatic digest system
Sent: 30 September 2014 17:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK Digest - 29 Sep 2014 to 30 Sep 2014 - Special issue (#2014-251)
There are 12 messages totaling 10280 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective (10)
2. The RM listserv, still?!
3. IRMS Public Sector Group Meeting November 13th 2014
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]
For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: Graeme Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres, Wellington and Auckland.
IM Professional Development in New Zealand
It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight) from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand. Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation.
We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information, especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I think it will be of international interest.
Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space
I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ Records.
As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
Graeme Thompson | MLIS | Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] | www.tauranga.govt.nz
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely suffer the same fate.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
________________________________
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sender: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
To: <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
ReplyTo: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not bubble.
Meic
From: Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 26 September 2014 15:58
To: Meic Pierce Owen
Cc: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
"There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach their captive audience.
I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service works for them, and give them quality curated professional content. Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Jen
Interesting post and a very fair point.
However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there.
We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same. Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily within our already up and running email.
That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however, proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 25 September 2014 18:29
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The RM listserv, still?!
Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv, still - in 2014?
With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good stuff posted here - for posterity.
It beggars belief, non?
So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat to chaff ratios.
The emails are frankly out of control.
Us , of all people...
Jen Parker
RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:29:06 +0100
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Thanks Graeme, Eldin and Daphne. It is good to know the listserve is valued.
Also, isn't it wonderful to be having this conversation across the Globe!
Meic
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:50:35 +0100
From: Tom Chan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Graeme
I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live
and work on a small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a
few places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there
are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish.
I used to be a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely
useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is
launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts.
While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is
worth mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a
fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am not
in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask]
is a British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for
example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in
America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
Tom
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
To: [log in to unmask]
I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information management in New Zealand
is (mostly) limited to two main centres, Wellington and Auckland.
IM Professional Development in New Zealand
It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight) from Auckland the heart of commercial
recordkeeping, in New Zealand. Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters don’t like
paying for airfares or accommodation.
We do have the NZ Records list server, but the
Information and Records Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information, especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records list
server. Sometimes it has items about local information management issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I think it will be of international interest.
Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space
I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines and delete
ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ Records.
As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
Graeme Thompson
| MLIS
|
Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council
| 07 577 7200
| Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask]
|
www.tauranga.govt.nz
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely suffer the same fate.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
To: <[log in to unmask]>
ReplyTo: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at IRMS ran a live
Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not bubble.
Meic
From: Jen
Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 September 2014 15:58
To: Meic Pierce Owen
Cc:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
"There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological
perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just let it drip
in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach their captive audience.
I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being successful. (especially
given how much time is lost reading and deleting emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out
of those umpteen training adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters incidentally
are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service works for them, and give them quality curated professional
content. Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Jen
Interesting post and a very fair point.
However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations have found,
is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there.
We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and networking site
and other sibling organisations have found the same. Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely
log-on to additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily within our already up and running email.
That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS launched a
discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however, proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes
that might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is something rather
interesting. There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The
Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 25 September 2014 18:29
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: The RM listserv, still?!
Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv, still - in 2014?
With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good stuff posted here - for posterity.
It beggars belief, non?
So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat to chaff
ratios.
The emails are frankly out of control.
Us , of all people...
Jen Parker
RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
To view the list archives go to:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to
[log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email
[log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email
[log in to unmask]
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the
intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and
TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The
information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in
it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email:
[log in to unmask] General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose,
copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does
not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council,
Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland)
Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email:
[log in to unmask] General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to
[log in to unmask] or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. To view the list archives go to:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to
[log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email
[log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email
[log in to unmask] To view the list archives go to:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to
[log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email
[log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email
[log in to unmask]
To view the list archives go to:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to
[log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email
[log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please email
[log in to unmask]
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contents. Violation of this notice may
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For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:06:04 +0100
From: "Eldin Rammell, Rammell Consulting" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Hi fellow records management PROFESSIONALS!
It would be great if everyone could show a little bit of respect for their
colleagues on this list. If you don't find some of the posts helpful, it is
just so easy to filter them out. If you don't like Peter's contributions
(and many people do appreciate them), just set up a filter to automatically
delete any posts from pakurilecz@GMAIL.COM.... it really is that simple to
do! But please do not make broad generalisations about the rest of the
listserv population based on your own opinions. In fact the ease with which
posts from certain individuals can be filtered within email provides
justification for retaining the listserv. Filtering out unwanted posts on a
blog site or other online forum is often more difficult to achieve.
Now if you don't like my posts, I won't be in the slightest bit offended if
you set up a filter to automatically delete posts from [log in to unmask]
Just don't mail the whole group that you hate my posts and assume that
everyone else does too J
Thanks all.
Regards,
Eldin.
Rammell Consulting Ltd.
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]
For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:11:43 +0000
From: Paula McClure <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Tom
I also live and work in a small densely populated island -- in the Mediterranean-- with few opportunities for professional development. I feel lucky that Peter K posts as regularly as he does, on a variety of topics. I don't have time to read all the posts but the subject lines are always descriptive, and I read those that interest me.
I don't really check to see if the posts have a particular political slant, because I truly believe in an 'international perspective'. As long as the posts relate to archives or records management they are fine with me. Although this is a UK-based list-serv I'm sure it is enriched by the contributions of RM professionals from all over the world.
Paula
From: Tom Chan <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
#yiv6304891233 #yiv6304891233 --.yiv6304891233hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv6304891233 body.yiv6304891233hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv6304891233
Graeme
I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I liveand work on a small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite afew places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here thereare some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish.I used to be a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largelyuseless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which islaunching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts.
While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it isworth mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, afair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am notin any way anti-American but [log in to unmask] a British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, forexample he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine inAmerica but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
Tom
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
To: [log in to unmask]
#yiv6304891233 #yiv6304891233 --.yiv6304891233ExternalClass p.yiv6304891233ecxMsoNormal, #yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass li.yiv6304891233ecxMsoNormal, #yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass div.yiv6304891233ecxMsoNormal {font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass a:link, #yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass span.yiv6304891233ecxMsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass span.yiv6304891233ecxMsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass p.yiv6304891233ecxMsoAcetate, #yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass li.yiv6304891233ecxMsoAcetate, #yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass div.yiv6304891233ecxMsoAcetate {font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass span.yiv6304891233ecxBalloonTextChar {}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass span.yiv6304891233ecxEmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass .yiv6304891233ecxMsoChpDefault {}#yiv6304891233 .yiv6304891233ExternalClass div.yiv6304891233ecxWordSection1 {}#yiv6304891233 I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres, Wellington and Auckland. IM Professional Development in New ZealandIt is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight) from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand. Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation. We do have the NZ Records list server, but theInformation and Records Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information, especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I think it will be of international interest. Mailing list vs Online portal or Work spaceI don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ Records. As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro ! Graeme Thompson | MLIS |Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200| Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all. I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards. Jen On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely suffer the same fate.Sent using BlackBerry® from OrangeFrom: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>Sender: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <[log in to unmask]>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000To: <[log in to unmask]>ReplyTo: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not bubble.Meic From: Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 September 2014 15:58
To: Meic Pierce Owen
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! "There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort." Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach their captive audience. I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service works for them, and give them quality curated professional content. Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Jen Interesting post and a very fair point. However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there. We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same. Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily within our already up and running email. That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however, proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter. So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort. Regards Meic Meic Pierce OwenIRMS Chair From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 25 September 2014 18:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The RM listserv, still?! Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv, still - in 2014? With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good stuff posted here - for posterity. It beggars belief, non? So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat to chaff ratios. The emails are frankly out of control. Us , of all people...
Jen Parker RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)To view the list archives go to:https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please [log in to unmask] the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email:[log in to unmask] General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask] General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made [log in to unmask] or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. To view the list archives go to:https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please [log in to unmask] To view the list archives go to:https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please [log in to unmask] To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please [log in to unmask] For any content based queries, please [log in to unmask] contents of this e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may beprivileged and/or subject to copyright. Unauthorised use, distributionor copying of the contentsis expressly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, notifythe sender immediately, delete the email and attachments and all copiesfrom your system, and do not use, read, distribute, disclose or copy its contents. Violation of this notice maybe unlawful. Views expressed in this e-mail and attachments are thoseof the author, and not necessarily those of Tauranga City Council. Tauranga City Council does not accept liability for any loss, damage orconsequence arising from this email and/or attachmentscontaining any virus, defect, data corruption or transmission error.This email has been scrubbed for your protection by SMX. For more information visit smxemail.comTo view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UKTo unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UKFor any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask] any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask] To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UKTo unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UKFor any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask] any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:32:54 +0100
From: Jen Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
You'll note ..
I started this with an open question - on purpose - and not a statement of
fact.
I have enjoyed reading the comments.
Those who have replied seem to like the list email for the reasons that
email is just so convenient.
But i'm always left wondering what the silent majority think...
Naming conventions wd never have taken off anyway Daphne :) We all know how
it goes..
Have a good Tuesday folks.
Jen
On 30 September 2014 11:06, Eldin Rammell, Rammell Consulting <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi fellow records management PROFESSIONALS!
>
>
>
> It would be great if everyone could show a little bit of respect for their
> colleagues on this list. If you don’t find some of the posts helpful, it is
> just so easy to filter them out. If you don’t like Peter’s contributions
> (and many people do appreciate them), just set up a filter to automatically
> delete any posts from pakurilecz@GMAIL.COM.... it really is that simple
> to do! But please do not make broad generalisations about the rest of the
> listserv population based on your own opinions. In fact the ease with which
> posts from certain individuals can be filtered within email provides
> justification for retaining the listserv. Filtering out unwanted posts on a
> blog site or other online forum is often more difficult to achieve.
>
>
>
> Now if you don’t like my posts, I won’t be in the slightest bit offended
> if you set up a filter to automatically delete posts from
> [log in to unmask] Just don’t mail the whole group that you hate my
> posts and assume that everyone else does too J
>
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Eldin.
>
>
>
> Rammell Consulting Ltd.
>
>
> To view the list archives go to:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To
> unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with
> the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re
> JISC please email [log in to unmask] For any content based queries,
> please email [log in to unmask]
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK
For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]
For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 03:36:38 -0700
From: Daphne Beniston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Tom,
Cultural issues are always in the eye of the beholder. I'm going out on a
limb here, taking a punt ... the densely populated island that you live on
that's in the Atlantic... doesn't pitching it in terms of the Atlantic
exclude the North Sea, the Irish Sea, the Channel, the Solent, the
Hebrides, all bodies of water crucial to the culture, history and identity
of the UK?
Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and you could be in the gulf stream
region of the Scilles ...
My understanding of Jen's original point was the old conundrum of push
versus pull technology. It sounds like Jen (apologies for putting words in
your mouth) has requirements for a forum that is more discussion group
based (or similar) with people being able to 'follow' items of interest,
search posts etc. And, perhaps, an area for the posting and sharing of
resources. That is, pull technology with notifications supplying a bit of
'push'. The listserv is seen as a barrier, because (it is assumed) people
are stuck in their ways and reluctant to change. The benefits seen by
people who use the listserv are dismissed (almost out of hand). If I have a
query, I would prefer to shoot it across the listserv, to get as many live
responses. I don't want to rely on others who have the time scanning a
discussion forum-type area.
I also appreciate the ability to do some 'environment-scanning' - being
aware of what's happening by the emails that fly past.
The issue of Peter's emails was one that was always going to creep in, from
the moment the first email was signed off with 'frankly, the emails are out
of control'. Or words to that effect. I disagree. I think they're
managable.
Now Tom is moving on to quality of content, with a dash of politics and
culture.
I'll hold up my hand and say I've a laissez faire approach. If it's
something I want to read, I will. If not, I delete it. I hadn't noticed any
political tone, or been aware of etiquette around it. But, that could be
cultural. I grew up in the same country as Graeme, and even crossed paths
with him in a sub basement in a previous life. (Hundreds and hundreds of
records boxes stored directly beneath the city's storm water drains). It
could be the thinner ozone layer that we were both exposed to that has
clouded our judgement and made us obsessive about rectifying records
storage and relaxed about professional forums.
Either way Graeme, I dare you to start a row about the continuum. Make it
really interesting and rope Mary in.
Daphne
-----------------------------
From: Tom Chan
Sent: 30/09/2014 09:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Graeme
I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live and work on a
small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a few
places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there
are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish. I used to be a
PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely
useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is
launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts.
While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is worth
mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a
fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am
not in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask] is a
British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for
example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in
America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
Tom
-----------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
To: [log in to unmask]
I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the
North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information
management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres,
Wellington and Auckland.
*IM Professional Development in New Zealand*
It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of
governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight)
from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand.
Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of
these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial
centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters
don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation.
We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records
Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information,
especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records
list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management
issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post
something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I
think it will be of international interest.
*Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space*
I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is
readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines
and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to
access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and
drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ
Records.
As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
*Graeme Thompson* | MLIS | Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile
021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] | www.tauranga.govt.nz
*From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:
[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker
*Sent:* Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
*To:* [log in to unmask]
*Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those
entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to
flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was
not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely
suffer the same fate.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
------------------------------
*From: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
*Sender: *The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <
[log in to unmask]>
*Date: *Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
*To: *<[log in to unmask]>
*ReplyTo: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
*Subject: *Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at
IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not
bubble.
Meic
*From:* Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
*Sent:* 26 September 2014 15:58
*To:* Meic Pierce Owen
*Cc:* [log in to unmask]
*Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?!
"There are indeed many ways we *could* be having these discussions (from a
technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our
busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just
let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach
their captive audience.
I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being
successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting
emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on
Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it
feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and
have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you
switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations
etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training
adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in
such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then
search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters
incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are
the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's
dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service
works for them, and give them quality curated professional content.
Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at
how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Jen
Interesting post and a very fair point.
However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations
have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform
that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there.
We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and
networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same.
Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the
same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well
initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to
additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily
within our already up and running email.
That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS
launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very
valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however,
proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the
reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might
help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is
something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we *could* be
having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear
to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with
that which requires least effort.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
*From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:
[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker
*Sent:* 25 September 2014 18:29
*To:* [log in to unmask]
*Subject:* The RM listserv, still?!
Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv,
still - in 2014?
With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good
stuff posted here - for posterity.
It beggars belief, non?
So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better
ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat
to chaff ratios.
The emails are frankly out of control.
Us , of all people...
Jen Parker
RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:52:34 +0100
From: David Bridge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I managed to do the same in Lotus and I agree well said Daphne
Regards to all
David Bridge
____________________________________________________________________________________
Records Manager | Rheolwr Cofnodion
Records Management | Rheolaeth Cofnodion
Flintshire County Council | Cyngor Sir y Fflint
____________________________________________________________________________________
Tel | Ffôn | 01352 702178
Email | Ebost | [log in to unmask]
Secure e-mail|Ebost [log in to unmask]
____________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.flintshire.gov.uk | http://www.siryfflint.gov.uk
http://www.twitter.com/flintshirecc | http://www.twitter.com/csyfflint
From: "Eldin Rammell, Rammell Consulting" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask],
Date: 29/09/2014 22:46
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Sent by: The Information and Records Management Society mailing
list <[log in to unmask]>
Well said Daphne…. you took the words right out of my mouth. Personally,
I’ve established a rule in Outlook which simply puts all emails from
RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK into a “reading” folder and when I have time, I
browse down the list of subject lines and pick out items of interest. It
ain’t rocket science!!
Whilst other technologies have their own unique advantages and they have
their place in our busy world, the listserv has the benefit of using a
technology that everyone is comfortable with and – in general – is not
affected by individual employer’s rules about firewalls and other security
considerations.
This current discussion has raised a smile or two.
Back to work….
Eldin.
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [
mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Daphne Beniston
Sent: 29 September 2014 21:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
May I share something else with this forum? I'm slightly puzzled that I
don't seem to be getting the same number of emails that everyone else
reports getting. I can get anywhere from 3 or 4 to 30 a day, but the
unwanted ones take about a second in total to deal with, so I seem to be
missing out on all the ones that are swamping other people.
The ones I receive are identified as RM listserv. I've never yet been
startled to open one of them believing it to be about optimisation of
search engines, only to find that it is TPFL's latest training offerings.
All training emails have training or courses in the title, the ones from
Peter have his name in the title, the ones about retention are usually
horridly predictable and have 'retention' somewhere in the title, giving
the game away. All the emails I get are easily identifiable, and any I
don't want to read are dealt with in a bulk delete that takes no time. I
deal with them the same way I deal with the corporate comms I get on the 4
(yes 4) corporate email systems I have to use to do my job. That gives me
6 email systems in total, as I have 2 personal ones as well.
In all honesty, the listserv emails are the least of my email problems.
Unfortunately, management of the listserv emails doesn't come close to
being a distant also-ran in the race of my IM challenges.
Re-the recent calls to start classifying these emails - I think people
already do, otherwise I'd be more surprised than I am on opening the
emails. Predictability is the word I'd associate with the contents versus
titles ratio on this forum, as opposed to 'radically eclectic', or 'no
correlation whatsoever', or even 'who'd have thought that'. The subject
lines could indeed be classed as 'spoilers' rather than 'devices of
suspense'.
In the call to categorise the emails more than they already are, I'm
reminded of a woman I once worked with who decided to embrace information
management in her own home, and started classifying and cataloguing her
book collection. This included listing the books in a home made index
system, as well as arranging them in said categories on the shelves. Then
she decided to apply it to her collection of women's magazines. Then she
decided she needed a full set of said magazines, and bought the back
catalogue. Then she discovered, partway thru classifying the back
catalogue that she had indeed already bought those magazines. Not only
that, she'd even read them. My head started hurting at that point, and I
switched off as she began an earnest discussion on addressing the dilemma
of how to classify the duplicates.
I only share this because the trains have been running late of late, and
I've had the time on my hands. And the recent correspondence for some
reason brought the above to mind. With luck for everyone on this list,
things will return to normal, I'll have no need to while away the time
amusing myself by posting to the list, and I'll retreat once more to being
a silent observer.
And, apologies Peter but the train is too bouncy to attempt deletion of
the trail.
Daphne
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Flintshire County Council shall bear no responsibility
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Deellir na fydd unrhyw safbwyntiau, na chynghorion, na
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Cyngor Sir y Fflint, yn cael eu cynnig na'u cadarnhau ganddo
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:27:34 +0100
From: Jane Proffitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IRMS Public Sector Group Meeting November 13th 2014
This quarter’s Public Sector Group meeting will take the form of a workshop on Digital Continuity. The day will be a mixture of presentations, interactive group discussion and
small group work. The overall aim is for delegates to be work towards creating digital continuity policies for their own organisations and to assist fellow delegates in developing there’s
This meeting will be open to IRMS members only (unless there are spare spaces to be made available to non members two weeks before the event). So that we can make the best use of working in small groups we are limiting the number of delegates to 40. The spaces will be allocated on a first come first served basis. On this occasion corporate members will be limited to two delegates per organisation. We will be using the materials created by the National Archives team and you will be asked to download and bring some of these materials with you.
If you are an IRMS member and would like to reserve a place please reply to this email address [log in to unmask]
quoting your IRMS membership number and whether you have any special dietary requirements.
A copy of the agenda is attached to this email.
Best Regards
Jane Proffitt
On behalf of Elizabeth Barber
Elizabeth Barber AMIRMS
IRMS - Chair of the Public Sector Group
01622-694373
Mobile: 07725785107
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:50:52 +0100
From: Jen Parker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Daphne,
You (as Rachel did) raise some more points about useability here (e.g on
email giving live responses) and that's the kind of detail and good
discussion we need now, I think. I welcome any impending review of forums
used by the profession.
Useability, accessibility, popularity, fair use, efficiency, retrieval,
archive etc.. have been touched on..
I hope any review takes the opportunity to engage with listserv recipients
aswell as RM members, to raise these points (and others) in detail *, to
allude to the merits and weaknesses respectively, and harness our opinions
and suggestions.
(Some focus and direction will be needed, I think)
If we do that, I think we might be in with a chance of at least moving
forwards a little, and not standing still. Because the list does have its
failings which are - from one day to the next I think - just ignored. My
first email on this was a bit black-and-white though, you're right. (hangs
head). I will take some time now to think on this more and dwell on the
above. I'll shoot something off to Meic, privately off-list.
Thanks for the input,
Jen
(p.s the Q to Peter re home address was an analogy about junk mail folks;
nothing sinister)
On 30 September 2014 11:36, Daphne Beniston <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Cultural issues are always in the eye of the beholder. I'm going out on a
> limb here, taking a punt ... the densely populated island that you live on
> that's in the Atlantic... doesn't pitching it in terms of the Atlantic
> exclude the North Sea, the Irish Sea, the Channel, the Solent, the
> Hebrides, all bodies of water crucial to the culture, history and identity
> of the UK?
>
> Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and you could be in the gulf
> stream region of the Scilles ...
>
> My understanding of Jen's original point was the old conundrum of push
> versus pull technology. It sounds like Jen (apologies for putting words in
> your mouth) has requirements for a forum that is more discussion group
> based (or similar) with people being able to 'follow' items of interest,
> search posts etc. And, perhaps, an area for the posting and sharing of
> resources. That is, pull technology with notifications supplying a bit of
> 'push'. The listserv is seen as a barrier, because (it is assumed) people
> are stuck in their ways and reluctant to change. The benefits seen by
> people who use the listserv are dismissed (almost out of hand). If I have a
> query, I would prefer to shoot it across the listserv, to get as many live
> responses. I don't want to rely on others who have the time scanning a
> discussion forum-type area.
>
> I also appreciate the ability to do some 'environment-scanning' - being
> aware of what's happening by the emails that fly past.
>
> The issue of Peter's emails was one that was always going to creep in,
> from the moment the first email was signed off with 'frankly, the emails
> are out of control'. Or words to that effect. I disagree. I think they're
> managable.
>
> Now Tom is moving on to quality of content, with a dash of politics and
> culture.
>
> I'll hold up my hand and say I've a laissez faire approach. If it's
> something I want to read, I will. If not, I delete it. I hadn't noticed any
> political tone, or been aware of etiquette around it. But, that could be
> cultural. I grew up in the same country as Graeme, and even crossed paths
> with him in a sub basement in a previous life. (Hundreds and hundreds of
> records boxes stored directly beneath the city's storm water drains). It
> could be the thinner ozone layer that we were both exposed to that has
> clouded our judgement and made us obsessive about rectifying records
> storage and relaxed about professional forums.
>
> Either way Graeme, I dare you to start a row about the continuum. Make it
> really interesting and rope Mary in.
>
> Daphne
> ------------------------------
> From: Tom Chan
> Sent: 30/09/2014 09:53
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
>
>
> Graeme
>
> I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live and work on a
> small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a few
> places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there
> are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
>
>
>
> However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish. I used to be
> a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely
> useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is
> launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts.
>
>
>
> While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is worth
> mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a
> fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am
> not in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask] is
> a British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for
> example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in
> America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in
> the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information
> management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres,
> Wellington and Auckland.
>
>
>
> *IM Professional Development in New Zealand*
>
> It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of
> governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight)
> from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand.
> Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of
> these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial
> centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters
> don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation.
>
>
>
> We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records
> Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information,
> especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records
> list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management
> issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post
> something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I
> think it will be of international interest.
>
>
>
> *Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space*
>
> I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option
> is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject
> lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy
> to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click
> and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to
> NZ Records.
>
>
>
> As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
>
>
>
>
>
> *Graeme Thompson* | MLIS | Records Management Specialist
> Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile
> 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] | www.tauranga.govt.nz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker
> *Sent:* Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?!
>
>
>
> Exactly.
>
> Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
>
>
>
> I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those
> entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
>
>
>
> Jen
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
> One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
> It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to
> flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was
> not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
> Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely
> suffer the same fate.
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
>
> *Sender: *The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <
> [log in to unmask]>
>
> *Date: *Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
>
> *To: *<[log in to unmask]>
>
> *ReplyTo: *Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
>
> *Subject: *Re: The RM listserv, still?!
>
>
>
> I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at
> IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not
> bubble.
>
> Meic
>
>
>
> *From:* Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> *Sent:* 26 September 2014 15:58
> *To:* Meic Pierce Owen
> *Cc:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: The RM listserv, still?!
>
>
>
> "There are indeed many ways we *could* be having these discussions (from
> a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our
> busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
>
>
>
> Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just
> let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
> A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach
> their captive audience.
>
>
>
> I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being
> successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting
> emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on
> Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it
> feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
>
> A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and
> have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you
> switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations
> etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training
> adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in
> such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then
> search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters
> incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are
> the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's
> dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service
> works for them, and give them quality curated professional content.
> Advertsing cd surely fund it?
>
>
> New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh
> at how we're running the show.
>
> Sorry, but it makes me despair.
>
>
> Jen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> Jen
>
>
>
> Interesting post and a very fair point.
>
>
>
> However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations
> have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform
> that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there.
>
>
>
> We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and
> networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same.
> Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the
> same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well
> initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to
> additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily
> within our already up and running email.
>
>
>
> That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS
> launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very
> valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however,
> proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the
> reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might
> help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
>
>
>
> So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is
> something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we *could* be
> having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear
> to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with
> that which requires least effort.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Meic
>
>
>
> Meic Pierce Owen
>
> IRMS Chair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* The Information and Records Management Society mailing list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Jen Parker
> *Sent:* 25 September 2014 18:29
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* The RM listserv, still?!
>
>
>
> Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv,
> still - in 2014?
>
>
>
> With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really
> good stuff posted here - for posterity.
>
>
>
> It beggars belief, non?
>
>
>
> So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many
> better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective
> wheat to chaff ratios.
>
>
>
> The emails are frankly out of control.
>
>
>
> Us , of all people...
>
>
> Jen Parker
>
> RM practitioner, of sorts.
>
>
> (I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
>
> To view the list archives go to:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To
> unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with
> the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re
> JISC please email [log in to unmask] For any content based queries,
> please email [log in to unmask]
>
> Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life -
> Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is
> solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient,
> you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any
> way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth &
> Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant
> that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any
> liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth
> & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email
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>
>
>
> Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life -
> Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is
> solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient,
> you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any
> way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth &
> Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant
> that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any
> liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth
> & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email
> system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of
> Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is
> possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held
> responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests
> to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act
> should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email:
> [log in to unmask] General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be
> made to [log in to unmask] or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live
> Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask] or
> 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to
> [log in to unmask] or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving
> services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
> To view the list archives go to:
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To
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>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:30:36 +0000
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Jen
I think it will be really interesting to see what format takes over from this one as the ‘eazy peazy’ on-line discussion platform for professionals (of any profession).
My own feeling it will either be some form of ‘super-list’ that sits within email, some listserve with enhanced self-tailorability (be this manually set or learnt by the ‘intelligent’ software), or it will be a platform that takes advantage of our increasing tendency to log-on to a platform vis our device and remain logged on. These have the advantage of becoming ubiquitous and also removing the need for notification email.
IRMS will continue to watch the skies and look to push the envelope where we think it appropriate and it is within or capability to deliver- informed by the profession and supported by our membership, whose time freely given as volunteers and whose annual membership fees combine to resource the work that we do.
I look forward to your further comments Jen.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 30 September 2014 16:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Daphne,
You (as Rachel did) raise some more points about useability here (e.g on email giving live responses) and that's the kind of detail and good discussion we need now, I think. I welcome any impending review of forums used by the profession.
Useability, accessibility, popularity, fair use, efficiency, retrieval, archive etc.. have been touched on..
I hope any review takes the opportunity to engage with listserv recipients aswell as RM members, to raise these points (and others) in detail *, to allude to the merits and weaknesses respectively, and harness our opinions and suggestions.
(Some focus and direction will be needed, I think)
If we do that, I think we might be in with a chance of at least moving forwards a little, and not standing still. Because the list does have its failings which are - from one day to the next I think - just ignored. My first email on this was a bit black-and-white though, you're right. (hangs head). I will take some time now to think on this more and dwell on the above. I'll shoot something off to Meic, privately off-list.
Thanks for the input,
Jen
(p.s the Q to Peter re home address was an analogy about junk mail folks; nothing sinister)
On 30 September 2014 11:36, Daphne Beniston <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Tom,
Cultural issues are always in the eye of the beholder. I'm going out on a limb here, taking a punt ... the densely populated island that you live on that's in the Atlantic... doesn't pitching it in terms of the Atlantic exclude the North Sea, the Irish Sea, the Channel, the Solent, the Hebrides, all bodies of water crucial to the culture, history and identity of the UK?
Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and you could be in the gulf stream region of the Scilles ...
My understanding of Jen's original point was the old conundrum of push versus pull technology. It sounds like Jen (apologies for putting words in your mouth) has requirements for a forum that is more discussion group based (or similar) with people being able to 'follow' items of interest, search posts etc. And, perhaps, an area for the posting and sharing of resources. That is, pull technology with notifications supplying a bit of 'push'. The listserv is seen as a barrier, because (it is assumed) people are stuck in their ways and reluctant to change. The benefits seen by people who use the listserv are dismissed (almost out of hand). If I have a query, I would prefer to shoot it across the listserv, to get as many live responses. I don't want to rely on others who have the time scanning a discussion forum-type area.
I also appreciate the ability to do some 'environment-scanning' - being aware of what's happening by the emails that fly past.
The issue of Peter's emails was one that was always going to creep in, from the moment the first email was signed off with 'frankly, the emails are out of control'. Or words to that effect. I disagree. I think they're managable.
Now Tom is moving on to quality of content, with a dash of politics and culture.
I'll hold up my hand and say I've a laissez faire approach. If it's something I want to read, I will. If not, I delete it. I hadn't noticed any political tone, or been aware of etiquette around it. But, that could be cultural. I grew up in the same country as Graeme, and even crossed paths with him in a sub basement in a previous life. (Hundreds and hundreds of records boxes stored directly beneath the city's storm water drains). It could be the thinner ozone layer that we were both exposed to that has clouded our judgement and made us obsessive about rectifying records storage and relaxed about professional forums.
Either way Graeme, I dare you to start a row about the continuum. Make it really interesting and rope Mary in.
Daphne
________________________________
From: Tom Chan
Sent: 30/09/2014 09:53
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Graeme
I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live and work on a small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a few places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish. I used to be a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his posts.
While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is worth mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am not in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> is a British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
Tom
________________________________
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres, Wellington and Auckland.
IM Professional Development in New Zealand
It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight) from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand. Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation.
We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information, especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I think it will be of international interest.
Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space
I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to NZ Records.
As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
Graeme Thompson | MLIS | Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile 021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> | www.tauranga.govt.nz<http://www.tauranga.govt.nz>
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely suffer the same fate.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
________________________________
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sender: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
To: <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
ReplyTo: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not bubble.
Meic
From: Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 26 September 2014 15:58
To: Meic Pierce Owen
Cc: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
"There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach their captive audience.
I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow, it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service works for them, and give them quality curated professional content. Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh at how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Jen
Interesting post and a very fair point.
However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go there.
We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same. Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily within our already up and running email.
That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however, proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 25 September 2014 18:29
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The RM listserv, still?!
Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv, still - in 2014?
With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really good stuff posted here - for posterity.
It beggars belief, non?
So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our respective wheat to chaff ratios.
The emails are frankly out of control.
Us , of all people...
Jen Parker
RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454600. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To view the list archives go to: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with the words UNSUBSCRIBE RECORDS-MANAGEMENT-UK For any technical queries re JISC please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For any content based queries, please email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:44:46 +0100
From: David Bridge <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Personally I think the majority of posts from across the world have been
in favour of continuing lisserve and managing our own information which
most of us don't seem to have a problem doing. I also found the assumption
that the "silent majority" is not in favour of this approach breathtaking.
David Bridge
____________________________________________________________________________________
Data Protection Officer|Swyddog Diogelu Data
Records Manager | Rheolwr Cofnodion
Records Management | Rheolaeth Cofnodion
Flintshire County Council | Cyngor Sir y Fflint
____________________________________________________________________________________
Tel | Ffôn | 01352 702178
Email | Ebost | [log in to unmask]
Secure e-mail|Ebost [log in to unmask]
____________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.flintshire.gov.uk | http://www.siryfflint.gov.uk
http://www.twitter.com/flintshirecc | http://www.twitter.com/csyfflint
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask],
Date: 30/09/2014 17:31
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international
Perspective
Sent by: The Information and Records Management Society mailing
list <[log in to unmask]>
Jen
I think it will be really interesting to see what format takes over from
this one as the ‘eazy peazy’ on-line discussion platform for professionals
(of any profession).
My own feeling it will either be some form of ‘super-list’ that sits
within email, some listserve with enhanced self-tailorability (be this
manually set or learnt by the ‘intelligent’ software), or it will be a
platform that takes advantage of our increasing tendency to log-on to a
platform vis our device and remain logged on. These have the advantage of
becoming ubiquitous and also removing the need for notification email.
IRMS will continue to watch the skies and look to push the envelope where
we think it appropriate and it is within or capability to deliver-
informed by the profession and supported by our membership, whose time
freely given as volunteers and whose annual membership fees combine to
resource the work that we do.
I look forward to your further comments Jen.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [
mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 30 September 2014 16:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Daphne,
You (as Rachel did) raise some more points about useability here (e.g on
email giving live responses) and that's the kind of detail and good
discussion we need now, I think. I welcome any impending review of forums
used by the profession.
Useability, accessibility, popularity, fair use, efficiency, retrieval,
archive etc.. have been touched on..
I hope any review takes the opportunity to engage with listserv recipients
aswell as RM members, to raise these points (and others) in detail *, to
allude to the merits and weaknesses respectively, and harness our opinions
and suggestions.
(Some focus and direction will be needed, I think)
If we do that, I think we might be in with a chance of at least moving
forwards a little, and not standing still. Because the list does have its
failings which are - from one day to the next I think - just ignored. My
first email on this was a bit black-and-white though, you're right. (hangs
head). I will take some time now to think on this more and dwell on the
above. I'll shoot something off to Meic, privately off-list.
Thanks for the input,
Jen
(p.s the Q to Peter re home address was an analogy about junk mail folks;
nothing sinister)
On 30 September 2014 11:36, Daphne Beniston <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Tom,
Cultural issues are always in the eye of the beholder. I'm going out on a
limb here, taking a punt ... the densely populated island that you live on
that's in the Atlantic... doesn't pitching it in terms of the Atlantic
exclude the North Sea, the Irish Sea, the Channel, the Solent, the
Hebrides, all bodies of water crucial to the culture, history and identity
of the UK?
Of course, I could be reading it wrong, and you could be in the gulf
stream region of the Scilles ...
My understanding of Jen's original point was the old conundrum of push
versus pull technology. It sounds like Jen (apologies for putting words in
your mouth) has requirements for a forum that is more discussion group
based (or similar) with people being able to 'follow' items of interest,
search posts etc. And, perhaps, an area for the posting and sharing of
resources. That is, pull technology with notifications supplying a bit of
'push'. The listserv is seen as a barrier, because (it is assumed) people
are stuck in their ways and reluctant to change. The benefits seen by
people who use the listserv are dismissed (almost out of hand). If I have
a query, I would prefer to shoot it across the listserv, to get as many
live responses. I don't want to rely on others who have the time scanning
a discussion forum-type area.
I also appreciate the ability to do some 'environment-scanning' - being
aware of what's happening by the emails that fly past.
The issue of Peter's emails was one that was always going to creep in,
from the moment the first email was signed off with 'frankly, the emails
are out of control'. Or words to that effect. I disagree. I think they're
managable.
Now Tom is moving on to quality of content, with a dash of politics and
culture.
I'll hold up my hand and say I've a laissez faire approach. If it's
something I want to read, I will. If not, I delete it. I hadn't noticed
any political tone, or been aware of etiquette around it. But, that could
be cultural. I grew up in the same country as Graeme, and even crossed
paths with him in a sub basement in a previous life. (Hundreds and
hundreds of records boxes stored directly beneath the city's storm water
drains). It could be the thinner ozone layer that we were both exposed to
that has clouded our judgement and made us obsessive about rectifying
records storage and relaxed about professional forums.
Either way Graeme, I dare you to start a row about the continuum. Make it
really interesting and rope Mary in.
Daphne
From: Tom Chan
Sent: 30/09/2014 09:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
Graeme
I am not unsympathetic to the issues that you raise. I live and work on a
small densely populated island in the Atlantic. There are quite a few
places to get training to keep your skills up to date but even here there
are some places that are either geographically or culturally isolated.
However Peter Kurilecz for the most part just posts rubbish. I used to be
a PeterK supporter a few years back but these days he just posts largely
useless promotional pieces for the library of somewhere or other which is
launching something or other. He puts zero care or curation into his
posts.
While we are discussing 'an international perspective' it is worth
mentioning that Peter is an American. There is nothing wrong with that, a
fair few of my relatives are American. I visit America every quarter. I am
not in any way anti-American but [log in to unmask] is a
British based list. Some of Peter’s posts are culturally tone deaf, for
example he posts pro-Israel slanted news stories which is probably fine in
America but is quite divisive and contentious in the UK.
Tom
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 01:03:01 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?! - An international Perspective
To: [log in to unmask]
I work as an Information Specialist in Tauranga, a provincial city in the
North Island of New Zealand. Professional development for information
management in New Zealand is (mostly) limited to two main centres,
Wellington and Auckland.
IM Professional Development in New Zealand
It is a seven hour drive (one hour flight) to Wellington, heart of
governmental recordkeeping, and a three hour drive (a 40 minute flight)
from Auckland the heart of commercial recordkeeping, in New Zealand.
Invariably, any IM conferences, seminars, workshops, etc, are in either of
these two locations. This is improving with more events in provincial
centres, but mostly they are not easy to get to, and the bean counters
don’t like paying for airfares or accommodation.
We do have the NZ Records list server, but the Information and Records
Management Society mailing list brings in a wider range of information,
especially from Peter Kurilecz, some of which I pass on to the NZ records
list server. Sometimes it has items about local information management
issues that are not on the local mailing list. Occasionally, I’ll post
something from New Zealand to the IRMS mailing list, or to Peter, when I
think it will be of international interest.
Mailing list vs Online portal or Work space
I don’t want fancy, complicated access to information if a simple option
is readily available. I can quickly read the mailing list email subject
lines and delete ones I don’t want to read. Embedded links make it easy
to access and read online items and If I want to save a link, I can click
and drag the email into a Reference folder in our EDRMS, or forward it to
NZ Records.
As we say over here, the IRMS mailing list is sweet, bro !
Graeme Thompson | MLIS | Records Management Specialist
Tauranga City Council | 07 577 7200 | Internal ext. 7623 | Mobile
021-032-7550 | [log in to unmask] | www.tauranga.govt.nz
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:
[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 3:53 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
Exactly.
Let us find the gumption to retire the listserv once and for all.
I think the administrators simply owe it to people, especially those
entering the profession, to do things better and move things forwards.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 16:36, Nicholas Cooper <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Arguably IRMSpace never got going because of the RM Listserv.
One was active whilst the other struggled to gain traction.
It was proposed that the Listserv be retired to allow the IRMSpace to
flourish (or rather force migration to the more modern platform). This was
not allowed to happen so IRMSpace never gained widespread adoption.
Arguably, again, while Listserv remains other initiative will most likely
suffer the same fate.
Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
From: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list <
[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0000
To: <[log in to unmask]>
ReplyTo: Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
I personally have a lot of empathy with what you say Jen yet when we at
IRMS ran a live Facebook equivalent site, Irmspace, it simply did not
bubble.
Meic
From: Jen Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 September 2014 15:58
To: Meic Pierce Owen
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The RM listserv, still?!
"There are indeed many ways we could be having these discussions (from a
technological perspective) yet we appear to be, within the context of our
busy work lives, most comfortable with that which requires least effort."
Yes. Embarrassing, isn't it. Shameful, even. 'We' (not me) prefer to just
let it drip in, and look busy deleting the things.
A blog wd certainly suit those who otherwise use the listserv to reach
their captive audience.
I don't think it's "time" that stops these other platforms being
successful. (especially given how much time is lost reading and deleting
emails!). Look at how much time (most) ppl spend talkign to ppl on
Facebook. They need to be smarter, more responsive, more intuitive (wow,
it feels like i'm talking about DM software all over again).
A good collaboration platform (amongst other things) lets you start and
have conversations in real time (just like Facebook does) and keeps you
switched on to all the content that you want (e.g following conversations
etc). Then one cd actively opt in or out of those umpteen training
adverts, course reminders and retention queries; which wd be formatted in
such a way as to make them really helpful. (cos you tag them, and then
search for them again, just like you use tags in Twitter). Email filters
incidentally are not a decent solution to good content curation! they are
the best-that-we-can-do-right-now. Ppl do log in when they know that it's
dynamic and current, and they will pay for subscription if the service
works for them, and give them quality curated professional content.
Advertsing cd surely fund it?
New people entering this profession all the time, they must surely laugh
at how we're running the show.
Sorry, but it makes me despair.
Jen
On 26 September 2014 08:55, Meic Pierce Owen <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Jen
Interesting post and a very fair point.
However, in defence of ‘the listserve’ what we, and other organisations
have found, is that it is not that easy to sustain activity on any
platform that requires individuals to make a conscious decision to go
there.
We at IRMS found that with our irmspace professional discussion and
networking site and other sibling organisations have found the same.
Indeed, groups using the UK public sector Knowledge Hub have also found
the same. The ‘problem’ seems to be that whilst these platforms do well
initially, most of us simply do not have the time to routinely log-on to
additional platforms whilst the listserve approach sits quite happily
within our already up and running email.
That is not to say that these platforms are not worth re-visiting. IRMS
launched a discussion forum a year ago now and this has proven very
valuable as a platform for internal discussions. It has not, however,
proven popular with the profession. We are looking at reviewing the
reasons for this with a view to making any functionality changes that
might help uptake and then relaunching the platform thereafter.
So, whilst I agree with you, I think what we are currently seeing is
something rather interesting. There are indeed many ways we could be
having these discussions (from a technological perspective) yet we appear
to be, within the context of our busy work lives, most comfortable with
that which requires least effort.
Regards
Meic
Meic Pierce Owen
IRMS Chair
From: The Information and Records Management Society mailing list [mailto:
[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jen Parker
Sent: 25 September 2014 18:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The RM listserv, still?!
Does anyone else see the irony in Records Managers using the RM listserv,
still - in 2014?
With its sheer inability to filter the content, or preserve the really
good stuff posted here - for posterity.
It beggars belief, non?
So much better software we must have to pick from. There are so many
better ways to present and preserve this content, and manage our
respective wheat to chaff ratios.
The emails are frankly out of control.
Us , of all people...
Jen Parker
RM practitioner, of sorts.
(I think it's really time I just opted to unsubscribe..)
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