Shadi raises a number of points here and even tries to explicitly link the discussion back to 'media' (however defined)', the role of the media/press etc. Elina's 'response' completely ignores these points. I think it's notable, too, that various people, including Shadi here, have provided links, references and so forth, for what they are claiming, but Elina's points always seem to be along the lines of "I could provide details here, but . . ." As a number of other people have pointed out, this isn't really debating. Every Israeli killing of Palestinians is a "mistake" or "a tragic accident" - as long as they are *really* civilians, of course - when the sheer mass of people (yes, people!) killed must mean that lots of innocent civilians are being killed.
I am interested to hear a response from Elina on the last point in Shadi's message (about Ashdod/Asdod). And if a discussion on this point isn't of interest to (at least some) members of MECCSA - dealing as it does with media, culture and how we re-present it and communicate it - then MECCSA clearly needs to change its name
As should also be clear from my posting this, I do not agree with Lisa's position
Sent from my iPad
On 30 Jul 2014, at 20:20, "Elina Bardach-Yalov" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Great point!
This "personal" thing you are talking about - i.e. Israeli operation against HAMAS terrorists, which from your perspective I should condemn ( and for me is absolutely justified. I am sorry for civilian casualties, but I definitely support the government for trying to get rid of terrorists).
But as this is also personal for me (since I am the one to sit in the bomb shelter) I am wondering if you support HAMAS for targeting Israeli civilians or are you (and please leave aside this stupid Arabic propaganda - there is no other way of getting rid of these bloody Zionists, who occupied our land, since we are not Europeans and we both know that two state solution is possible) progressive enough to realize that targeting civilians (not by mistake, but absolutely deliberately) is immoral and wrong?
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 30, 2014, at 9:42 PM, "ABU-AYYASH, SHADI" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi All,
I’d like to share some of my thoughts on this issue.
- The “personal” matter
I believe that many of us agree with Lisa that personal attacks are not welcomed here. But how can exchanging ideas and discussing the Palestinian-Israeli conflict in which media plays a major role be considered as a personal attack. I find that disagreement with Elina point of view, which I find it a practical use of the Israeli government talking points, is so legitimate. Using this “personal attack” logic I can say, as a Palestinian that I consider Elina’s justification of murdering more than 1300 of my people in Gaza a very personal attack.
- Social Media vs Mainstream Media
This Israeli war on Gaza proved again that social movements and activists around the globe are using social media platforms and alternative media very well to get their message received by wide audience and for organising off line/on ground activities. #GazaUnderAttack and #IstandwithGaza hashtags which went viral on Twitter are examples of how people are using social media to tell stories that mainstream media aren’t telling their audience.
Protesters who went on streets of London and other cities in the UK to protest the BBC coverage of the conflict made #BBCtruth4Gaza hashtag very popular on Twitter, while online users stormed the US based channel ABC with complaints for misleading viewers by using a picture of bombing victims in Gaza claiming that it’s an image from Israel. Consequently the channel had to apologize later for misinforming viewers . These are examples of how online and offline activism are coupling and contributing to the failure of Israel war propaganda.
Further reading on this can be found here:
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/impact-social-media-israelgaza-conflict/1182
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israels-propaganda-machine-is-finally-starting-to-misfire-9636417.html
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/telegenic-israels-crumbling.html
- Israeli press complicity
If any of you is looking for a professional and non-biased coverage of the war on Gaza in the Israeli media, I tell you it would be a hard task. In any war that Israel declares on Palestinians or Lebanon, the so called free Israeli press would become part of the Israeli war media machine. Except for Haaretz which is left oriented newspaper, most of the Israeli media outlets cover the war from the far right Israeli government perspective. Even Haaretz coverage of this war is biased, as the newspaper failed so far to report the war professionally. This shouldn’t be surprising if we learn that according to recent polls, 87% of Israelis support Netanyahu war on Palestinians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israelis-support-netanyahu-and-gaza-war-despite-rising-deaths-on-both-sides/2014/07/29/0d562c44-1748-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html
- Ashdod/Asdod
One last issue I wanted to mention here is about Ashdod/Asdod that Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov told us she lives in. Ashdod is the Hebrew name of a Palestinian village called in Arabic “Asdod” whose people were forced by the Zionists militias in 1947-1948 to leave and take refuge in Gaza strip. So in 2014, Palestinians of Asdod who are now refugees for more than 65 years in Gaza are asked by those who took their homes by force in 1948 to not resist at all and accept being murdered silently.
Shadi Abu-Ayyash
PhD Student in Digital Arts
Huston School of Film & Digital Media
National University of Ireland, Galway
@shadi3000
Professor Paul Ward
Course Leader - MA Animation Production
+44 1202 363732
[log in to unmask]
aub.ac.uk<http://aub.ac.uk/>
[cid:image7dade8.PNG@59b4be33.4391504f] <http://www.facebook.com/inspiredaub> [cid:imagee2d3a5.PNG@ececab2f.40b89b07] <http://www.twitter.com/inspiredAUB> [cid:imageda225b.PNG@cbc8b58d.4ab048f5] <http://www.youtube.com/inspiredaub>
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From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mohammed Ali
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
What I have said has nothing to do with being emotional. It is rather factual. As a simple fact, Palestinians are under an illegal Israeli occupation.
Figures included are according to the UN's bodies. The Israeli terrorism and propaganda campaign must halt immediately in order to give a chance for both sides; Palestinians and Israelis alike. Elina has been playing the role of a mouth-piece for the criminal; Netanyahu and his gang, whom will soon be brought to ICC and justice. Still, she is advocating and justifying his terrorism against unarmed civilians in Gaza and callings the children of Gaza as 'terrorist'.
Palestinians have the full rights to defend themselves in the face of systematic killing. What Palestinians are asking for is to stop the Israeli massacre and the illegal blockade in Gaza and give back some of their basic rights.
How can anyone justify the slaughtering of more than 1300, 220 of them are children, destroying more than 15000 homes, hospitals, mosques, power-plants, you name it? The Gaza people are under an aggressive and illegal collective punishment from illegal occupation, Israel.
If you want emotion, please go and read thousands of painful human stories and accounts from international journalists about these children whom lost their lives, families, homes, and future.
On 30 Jul 2014, at 16:35, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
1. The death toll of civilians is unchecked, since HAMAS tends to define his terrorist as civilians.
2. Several major incidents - HAMAS fired rockets, but they landed in Gaza, caused death to Palestinian civilians (7 rockets landed in Gaza just yesterday)
And there are more, just don't have time now to write them all down.
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Ann Overbergh <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Elina, please explain yourself as we are talking about innocent people here, dead for no reason they had anything to do with.
Are you suggesting that the figures quoted by Milly are wrong? How do they qualify as "pure propaganda"? These stats are all over the media: 1200 Palestinians, half of whom are women and children.
Please also clarify why Levy is a lunatic?
Thanks,
Ann
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Milly, it's very nice of you to pass here pure propaganda, but as I said I have absolutely no intention to discuss the sources here. You are referring once again to yourself as "a world", which is a bit disturbing, but understandable. Regarding Levy, even his ex-wife, a very smart Palestinian girl was wise enough not to listen to this lunatic.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Milly Williamson <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Perhaps Elina really doesn’t know that over 1,200 Palestinians have been killed since the siege started and that over 250 of them were children. Perhaps she doesn’t know these facts because the Israeli Broadcasting Authority banned the human rights organisation B’Tselem from broadcasting a paid-for advert on Israeli Radio which listed the names of the dead children. The thing is, Elina, that the rest of the world has seen the list of names of these dead children, and we have seen pictures of them. Many of them were babies. We have also seen the pictures of the thousands of traumatised and injured children in Gaza. Have you read Gideon Levy yet?
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Carlsten, Jennie
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:46
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Of course Elina has a right to express her views. Surely it is appropriate for others to point out where those views are informed by her professional affiliations. That would seem very pertinent to the discussion and to the purpose of having such a discussion in this forum.
Far from shutting her out of the conversation, I would very much like to ask Elina, again, to clarify her words about "the hundreds of dead terrorists whom you call children."
Please.
Best regards,
Jennie Carlsten
________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Cahal McLaughlin [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:41
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Dear Karl,
It seems appropriate to include the information that Elina states on her own Linked In page that she has acted as an advisor to Netanyahu. If that is a 'smear and slur', then I suggest you ask Elina why she has slurred herself.
I am happy to say that I have gone on protest marches against the current genocide in Gaza. That, of course, should colour your and Elina's and others' interpretation of my contribution to this debate.
Best wishes,
Cahal
Cahal McLaughlin
Professor of Film Studies,
School of Creative Arts,
Queens University Belfast
Room 003, First Floor,
21 University Square,
Belfast BT7 1NN
N. Ireland
00 44 2890973634
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com<http://www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com>
www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub<http://www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub>
On 30 Jul 2014, at 13:36, Spracklen, Karl wrote:
Hello all
While I tend to agree with the majority view here on the disgraceful actions of the Israeli government, I am disturbed by the way this is becoming a trial by smear and slur of Elina. Are we going to do some research on everyone who comments here so we can establish what they may have done in the past that makes them ‘less reliable’? This is becoming rather nasty rather quickly and we would all warn our students from making such ad hominem attacks.
Elina has a complete right to state her views and to defend herself in a civilized manner. Yes, I know Palestinians are being denied that by the Israeli government, but two wrongs do not make a right.
Karl Spracklen
www.karlspracklen.com<http://www.karlspracklen.com>
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mohammed-Ali Abunajela
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:27
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Probably it was Elina who advised her Prime Minster, Benjamin Netanyahu, to establish this programme:
Israel Offers Students Grants If They Tweet Favorable Propaganda. See this:
In a campaign to improve its image abroad, the Israeli government plans to provide scholarships to hundreds of students at its seven universities in exchange for their making pro-Israel Facebook posts and tweets to foreign audiences.
The students making the posts will not reveal online that they are funded by the Israeli government, according to correspondence about the plan revealed in the Haaretz newspaper.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office, which will oversee the programme, confirmed its launch and wrote that its aim was to “strengthen Israeli public diplomacy and make it fit the changes in the means of information consumption”.
Israel Offers Students Grants If They Tweet Favorable Propaganda<http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/israel-offers-students-grants-if-they>
Israel Offers Students Grants If They Tweet Favorable Pr...<http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/israel-offers-students-grants-if-they>
Israel is trying to fight back against the power of social media.
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "crooksandliars.com" claiming to be View on crooksandliars.com<http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/israel-offers-students-grants-if-they>
Preview by Yahoo
________________________________
From: Cahal McLaughlin <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: Mohammed Ali <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Cc: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Dear all,
Just to remind late joiners to the list, that Elina is named on her Linked-In page as an advisor to the Israeli prime minister.
Cahal
Cahal McLaughlin
Professor of Film Studies,
School of Creative Arts,
Queens University Belfast
Room 003, First Floor,
21 University Square,
Belfast BT7 1NN
N. Ireland
00 44 2890973634
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com<http://www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com>
www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub<http://www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub>
On 30 Jul 2014, at 12:32, Mohammed Ali wrote:
Elina,
You can play the role of the victim as much as you want but won't be able to mislead us. You need to admit that Israel is occupying and looting Palestinian lands, destroying their homes, illegally blockading the Gaza Strip, unjustly put people in prison including children, targeting hospitals and disabled care homes, and unlawful implementing continuing and discriminate attacks. About 1300 civilians killed, 40% children, and thwarting any peace efforts and many other criminal acts. What do you expect? You are very lucky to have a shelter to hide but but Palestinians don't have one. For several times, UN schools used as shelters have been targeted - including one today killing more than 20 people. Please don't give us any 'moral' lessons and only blame your illegal terrorist government.
Mohammed-Ali
University of Bedfordshire.
On 30 Jul 2014, at 11:51, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Milly, this is really nice of you to write for the whole world... Especially about hundreds of dead terrorists whom you call children... (And yes, I am aware of civilian casualties, which is very sad indeed).
And my point regarding rockets is - even if something does't kill you, it does irreversible psychological damage. Just think about it - you are writing me this post from some nice office and I am replying from a very unpleasant bomb shelter. And since we have sirens again, I am sorry, but you will have to continue this important discussion without me.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Milly Williamson <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Well, imagine then what it must have felt like for the hundreds of children who were blown apart by Israeli bombs; imagine the hundreds and hundreds of dead adults; imagine the thousands of injured and maimed, with very little medical help; imagine the mothers who have had to hold their dead children; imagine fleeing to a UN school, because you have nowhere else to go, and still being blown apart by Israeli bombs.
Israel is finally losing its propaganda war. No one believes your lies any more, except you.
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Elina Bardach-Yalov
Sent: 30 July 2014 11:18
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
I just hope that you called my point of view a "Zionist provocation". It is really flattering, as I have never answered any of "anti-Zionist" posts or emails. This time I really decided that this very interesting and important community has to hear the other voice. The voice of someone, who jumped out of bed once again during the night because of some HAMAS fanatic, who decided to send another rocket to her home town.
PS From personal experience - the siren is much more frightening than a rocket. You keep hearing a siren for 45 seconds and it takes only a few seconds for a rocket to explode.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Michael Chanan <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
The members of this list are to be congratulated for a discussion which, while different points of viewed were being aired, immediately rose to the Zionist provocation and transcended it before the perpetrator was outed.
Michael Chanan
www.mchanan.com<http://www.mchanan.com/>
www.putneydebater.com<http://www.putneydebater.com/>
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David Yellin College of Education
Jerusalem, Israel
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David Yellin College of Education
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David Yellin College of Education
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https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
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MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
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MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA mailing list
--------------------------------------------------------
To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the MECCSA list, please visit:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=MECCSA&A=1
-------------------------------------------------------
MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.
For further information, please visit: http://www.meccsa.org.uk/
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