Could be time to change the thread header here?
cheers
Leigh (Fr HekAL)
On 25/07/2014 9:58 PM, Morgan Leigh wrote:
> Take a step back and consider why occultism is occult. Is it that it is
> hidden in that few know of or about it, or, rather, does it refer to the
> layers of meaning found in 'occult' systems. By the former measure
> astrology is not occult, but by the second it is.
>
> Regards,
>
> Morgan Leigh
> PhD Candidate
> School of Social Science
> University of Tasmania
>
> On 25/07/2014 12:22 AM, Nick Campion wrote:
>> The issue becomes acute when we consider astrology which is frequently defined as 'occult' in dictionaries and encyclopaedias, while many practitioners reject the term. I suspect that in common usage the term 'occultist' is often implicitly considered the same as 'ritual magician',
>>
>> Nick
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Jon Sharp (LTS) [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 24 July 2014 12:27
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] British writers who are occultists
>>
>> The question of what constitutes 'occultism' is surely as problematic as the question of what constitutes 'magic' and so I would also agree with Nick's point.
>> For me, what matters is clarity around what is intended when the term is being used: a definition of 'occultist' as one who actively engages in the pursuit of hidden truths may be just as reasonable as a broader definition that includes the study of such matters without an associated commitment or praxis. As long as the definition that is being proposed is made clear then there would seem to be a number of ways in which the term 'occultist' might be correctly employed.
>> Bw
>> Jon
>>
>> Dr Jon Sharp, Head of Learning and Teaching Services
>> University of East Anglia, Norwich Research Park, Norwich, NR4 7TJ
>> Office: Room 0.27, The Registry Email: [log in to unmask]
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>>
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>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:ACADEMIC-STUDY-
>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Caroline Tully
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:47 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] British writers who are occultists
>>>
>>> It may not be a case of being initiated into occult societies, or studying occult
>>> subjects, but of _practising_ occult arts. At least with ceremonial
>>> magic(k) for example, one is expected to study and practise it. But maybe
>>> that's not the case for being an "occultist", maybe that's a broader,
>>> vaguer(?) category.
>>>
>>> Caroline Tully.
>>>
>>> Centre for Classics and Archaeology
>>> University of Melbourne
>>> Australia
>>> http://classics-archaeology.unimelb.edu.au/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:ACADEMIC-STUDY-
>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Morgan Leigh
>>> Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2014 8:27 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] SV: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC]
>>> British writers who are occultists
>>>
>>> Absolutely. Unless someone was on the membership roll of some society or
>>> other a determination as to whether or not one is an occultist is very
>>> problematic. Not the least because of the question of how one defines 'an
>>> occultist'. In Wheatley's case for example, he wrote many books with occult
>>> themes, for which he would have had to do research on occult matters. This
>>> raises the question of whether those who study the occult are by default
>>> occultists, or if there is some necessary commitment to be made before one is
>>> considered a 'real' occultist? Must one be initiated into some tradition before
>>> one may claim the moniker or are self initiates also occultists?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Morgan Leigh
>>> PhD Candidate
>>> School of Social Sciences
>>> University of Tasmania
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2014 2:46 PM, Nick Campion wrote:
>>>> I'd like to suggest that to be an occultist or not to be an occultist
>>>> are
>>> not binary poles, and that there are multiple ways in which one might be
>>> considered an occultist.
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
>>>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Ted Hand
>>>> [[log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: 18 July 2014 04:50
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] SV: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC]
>>> British
>>>> writers who are occultists
>>>>
>>>> I guess my point is that Lovecraft although clearly not a believer
>>> certainly appreciated how the occult functions, if you like. There was a reality
>>> to it that while not numinous was powerful in other senses. Which puts him in
>>> a tradition of readers making their own use of occult sources. I don't think he
>>> must be an occultist or initiate to be understood as an occult writer in some
>>> sense. That said I don't think he had chaos magic in mind...
>>>> On Jul 17, 2014 8:25 PM, "M. S. Spencer"
>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>> That should be addressed to Leigh, not Lee. apologies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:13 PM, M. S. Spencer
>>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>> Lee,
>>>>
>>>> Grant does not suggest that Lovecraft was an active Occultist in the
>>>> sense
>>> of one who is consciously practing "occult science" or performing ritual, nor
>>> does he suggest that Lovecraft "believed" in the occult. To suggest otherwise
>>> implies one has not read Grant, or is otherwise motivated to misrepresent his
>>> work. Grant was very aware of Lovecraft's materialism and atheism. He even
>>> directly addresses it several times in the Trilogies.
>>>> ~M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As long ago as 1987 I published "H.P. Lovecraft as Occultist': An
>>> Exploration" (essay in four parts, Shadowplay, Australia; in two parts, Dagon,
>>> UK) which refutes any suggestion (as made by Kenneth Grant and
>>> others) that Lovecraft believed in occultism or practised it any way save that
>>> of employing occult motifs in his fictional work.
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