Hello Everyone,
This is a very interesting conversation. I would like to point out a project which mapped VRA Core to RDF using schema.org as a base vocabulary.
http://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/4AjNkG6qGGEUEfkRaMQy/full#.U5XSWCgn934
VRA Core might not meet the needs of this community as well as CIDOC CRM, (LIDO) or SPECTRUM, but the lessons learned from the project are very informative for those looking to express rich cultural heritage metadata in schema.org.
Greg Reser
UC San Diego Library
9500 Gilman Drive, 0175K
La Jolla, CA 92093-0175
Phone: 858.246.0998
Skype: gregreser
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Poole
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 4:21 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Briefing paper on schema.org
Hi all,
I've been following this schema.org thread with considerable interest.
The Collections Trust has been looking at the development of a SPECTRUM Data Standard to support machine-to-machine interoperability of collections data. Our aim is to take as much of the pain out of publishing semantically-rich, re-usable data as possible. Some elements of this include:
- Promoting the integration of API into collections management systems
- Modelling the richness of museum data using the CIDOC CRM and based on the British Museum's work toward ReseachSpace
- Publishing structured vocabularies via the Culture Grid Vocabulary Bank (http://public.lexaurus.net/)
- Examining ways to simplify the mapping of rich museum data to less rich interchange formats like LIDO and the Europeana Data Model
All of the above connects back to COPE, in the sense that the richer the data 'out of the box' the less work museums have to do individually to surface their content in different places (and ideally the less re-tooling that needs doing for each new project).
I would be really interested in supporting an initiative to examine the potential to create a museum domain schema, test it and then put it forward to schema.org as a candidate for integration.
My original enquiry on this was really about whether it would be simpler for museums to publish rich data at source (ie. within their own domain), for others such as the Culture Grid to harvest or whether there will always need to be some measure of aggregation, annotation or enhancement to pull data together for specific uses.
I'd be happy to put together a meeting for interested parties to discuss this in July if people thought there was value in the conversation?
All best,
Nick
Nick Poole
Chief Executive Officer
Collections Trust
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-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mia
Sent: 09 June 2014 11:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MCG] Briefing paper on schema.org
Here's a slightly less technical article about schema.org for those who want to follow along... http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/6400 'HTML5 Microdata and Schema.org'. It gets a bit angle-brackety towards the end but it helps explain why adding structure to web pages through markup like schema.org is important.
And now back to the jargon... There was a conversation about this on twitter a few weeks ago, so here's a brief summary and a few links to bring that in - Antoine Isaac said Europeana is already doing a bit of schema (
https://twitter.com/antoine_isaac/status/470571269612916736 and related
tweets) and Dan Brickley suggested making a museum example of https://developers.google.com/webmasters/business-location-pages/. It might also be worth looking at the proposal for 'Collections'
http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Collection (and comparing it to http://www.cornucopia.org.uk/).
Moving on from structured data about organisations to data about collections, I'd found current schema.org markup can't quite say everything I'd want to say about historic objects (basing it on schema.org CreativeWork markup e.g.
https://github.com/mialondon/metadata-games/issues/17 )
Someone started a version for 'historical and genealogical information'
https://github.com/historical-data/schema and http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/HistoricalDataSchema but it seems to have petered out.
But - if we could agree to extend schema based on a museum-y/GLAMy standard already in use and come up with a common set of tags and terms to mark up items, then we could make a case for including that in the core of schema.org via SchemaDotOrgProposals http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/SchemaDotOrgProposals. I know, that's a big 'if', but if Europeana is already doing it for objects then that seems like the easiest path to follow.
Which is to say, yes, some sort of initiative would be great, but it probably doesn't need to be hugely formal. On the other hand, getting resources to put toward it is probably the most realistic way of working through all the issues, though I assume we've missed the window for this year's Summer of Code.
Cheers, Mia
--------------------------------------------
http://openobjects.org.uk/
http://twitter.com/mia_out
I mostly use this address for list mail; my open.ac.uk address is checked daily
On 9 June 2014 09:32, Bonewell, Perry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I think a good start would be some sort of initiative to develop
> concrete stuff around schema.org. Apart from reviews and recipes being
> displayed slightly differently in search results there isn't much else
> to go on. And it doesn't really look all that exciting as it stands.
>
> You can create custom Google search engines and select schema.org
> types in Advanced settings, example here:
>
> http://is.gd/2CBiFV
>
> It seems to be pretty effective - if I search for "Humphrey Spender"
> the Worktown site gives a good showing, though it's disappointing that
> this isn't shown as a gallery in the results.
>
> Interestingly enough the Guardian seems to be using schema.org quite
> extensively. I did a search for "David Bailey" and found this page:
>
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2012/jun/26/david-bail
> ey-east-end-in-pictures
>
> And the rich snippet validation for that page:
>
> http://is.gd/2p1yla
>
> I wonder if a museum slanted schema.org project would be a good
> candidate for Google Summer of Code?
>
> Perry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Mike Ellis
> Sent: 07 June 2014 10:33
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [MCG] Briefing paper on schema.org
>
> Hey Perry, Owen
>
> This is great stuff - thanks for sharing. Really interested in how
> schema.org can be used for museums - and also how we can move it along
> so it becomes something that is considered whenever museum content is
> developed for the web.
>
> Owen, the chap you know at Google could be a really interesting link -
> but how best to make things happen..?
>
> cheers
>
> Mike
>
>
> _____________________________
>
>
> *Mike Ellis *
>
> Thirty8 Digital: a small but perfectly formed digital agency:
> http://thirty8.co.uk <http://thirty8.co.uk/>
>
> * My book: http://heritageweb.co.uk <http://heritageweb.co.uk/> *
>
>
>
> > Bonewell, Perry <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 6 June 2014 11:02
> > Not wanting to put my own work down but I think the fact that the
> > site is fairly niche and is pretty much the only online collection
> > of Spender's work on the web is a strong contributing factor re SEO
> > :)
> >
> > That and nearly every page has his name on it :D
> >
> > But joking aside I don't think it will harm the results (and I'm
> > sure I can make improvements).
> >
> > Importantly it is pretty easy to implement. Obviously events and
> > review schema mark up is highly visible in search results already.
> >
> > I'm holding out for the day when my image thumbnails start showing
> > up too (and I'm sure much more imaginative things than that)!
> >
> > Perry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> > Of Owen Stephens
> > Sent: 06 June 2014 10:49
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [MCG] Briefing paper on schema.org
> >
> > Thanks Perry - really interesting.
> >
> > What use is made of schema.org by the search engines is difficult to
> > tell. Conversations with staff at the Wellcome Library suggested
> > they saw an increase in page views after implementing schema.org
> > markup and I note that the Bolton Worktown site is pretty successful
> > in terms of search engine results (search for 'Humphrey Spender' has
> > it 3rd in Google and 1st in Yahoo) - but impossible to know how far
> > the schema.org markup impacts that - especially in comparison to other SEO.
> >
> > In terms of improving markup - I think this is something that is
> > worth a broad discussion - if search engines are to make use of this
> > type of markup there is clearly some advantage to museums
> > establishing common approaches. I know Dan Brickley who works for
> > Google on this is interested in this area and I think would be
> > willing to contribute to a discussion about the best approaches.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > Owen Stephens
> > Owen Stephens Consulting
> > Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > Telephone: 0121 288 6936
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
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> > sender and then immediately, permanently delete it. Do not read,
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> > be monitored by Bolton Council in accordance with current regulations.
> > This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept
> > for the presence of computer viruses currently known to Bolton
> > Council. However, the recipient is responsible for virus-checking
> > before opening this message and any attachment. Unless expressly
> > stated to the contrary, any views expressed in this message are
> > those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the
> > views of Bolton Council. http://www.bolton.gov.uk
> >
> > ****************************************************************
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> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
> > Owen Stephens <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 6 June 2014 10:49
> > Thanks Perry - really interesting.
> >
> > What use is made of schema.org by the search engines is difficult to
> > tell. Conversations with staff at the Wellcome Library suggested
> > they saw an increase in page views after implementing schema.org
> > markup and I note that the Bolton Worktown site is pretty successful
> > in terms of search engine results (search for 'Humphrey Spender' has
> > it 3rd in Google and 1st in Yahoo) - but impossible to know how far
> > the schema.org markup impacts that - especially in comparison to other SEO.
> >
> > In terms of improving markup - I think this is something that is
> > worth a broad discussion - if search engines are to make use of this
> > type of markup there is clearly some advantage to museums
> > establishing common approaches. I know Dan Brickley who works for
> > Google on this is interested in this area and I think would be
> > willing to contribute to a discussion about the best approaches.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > Owen Stephens
> > Owen Stephens Consulting
> > Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > Telephone: 0121 288 6936
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
> > Bonewell, Perry <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 6 June 2014 10:29
> > Hi Owen, thanks for the this.
> >
> > I've experimented with schema.org on a collections site:
> >
> > http://boltonworktown.co.uk/
> >
> > An example of a page that has the mark up
> > (http://schema.org/Photograph
> ):
> >
> > http://boltonworktown.co.uk/photograph/scout-parade-3/
> >
> > ...and the Rich Snippet test of the same page:
> >
> > http://is.gd/Zw2okj
> >
> > The site is built with WordPress and was *cough* relatively easy to
> > embed if you are into tinkering with WP templates.
> >
> > I'm sure it's not best implementation (and I'd be glad of any
> > guidance on ways to improve it).
> >
> > Having had this up and running for a couple of years now AFAIK
> > Google doesn't make any use of the schema I've used as yet. I guess
> > I'd be interested in hearing of what uses I can put this to.
> >
> > All the best
> > Perry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> > Of Owen Stephens
> > Sent: 06 June 2014 09:39
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [MCG] Briefing paper on schema.org
> >
> > I thought this briefing paper from Phil Barker and Lorna Campbell at
> > Cetis might be of interest
> >
> > Phil describes it as follows: ""What is schema.org?". We often find
> > that when explaining the technology approach of LRMI [Learning
> > Resource Metadata Initiative] we are mostly talking about
> > schema.org, so this briefing, which describes the schema.org
> > specification for a technical audience should be of interest to
> > anyone thinking about implementing or using LRMI in a website or
> > other tool. It should also be of interest to people who plan to use
> > schema.org for describing other types of resource."
> >
> > You can download the briefing from
> > http://publications.cetis.ac.uk/2014/960
> >
> > I've seen schema.org being used by some digital collections
> > including the Wellcome library, Cambridge University Digital
> > Library, and Duke University digital library[1], and recommended it
> > as one approach to making resources discoverable in the recent Jisc
> > guide[2]
> >
> > I'd be very interested to hear if any museums are already using
> > schema.org to either mark up general information (open hours,
> > location, etc.) or their online collections.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > 1.
> > http://blogs.library.duke.edu/bitstreams/2014/03/27/schema-org-and-g
> > oo gle-for-local-discovery-some-key-takeaways/
> > 2.
> > http://www.jisc.ac.uk/guides/make-google-searches-work-for-you#schem
> > a
> >
> > Owen Stephens
> > Owen Stephens Consulting
> > Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > Telephone: 0121 288 6936
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
> > This e-mail and any attached files are confidential and may also be
> > legally privileged. They are intended solely for the intended
> > addressee. If you are not the addressee please e-mail it back to the
> > sender and then immediately, permanently delete it. Do not read,
> > print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it. This e-mail may
> > be monitored by Bolton Council in accordance with current regulations.
> > This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept
> > for the presence of computer viruses currently known to Bolton
> > Council. However, the recipient is responsible for virus-checking
> > before opening this message and any attachment. Unless expressly
> > stated to the contrary, any views expressed in this message are
> > those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the
> > views of Bolton Council. http://www.bolton.gov.uk
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
> > Owen Stephens <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 6 June 2014 09:38
> > I thought this briefing paper from Phil Barker and Lorna Campbell at
> > Cetis might be of interest
> >
> > Phil describes it as follows: ""What is schema.org?". We often find
> > that when explaining the technology approach of LRMI [Learning
> > Resource Metadata Initiative] we are mostly talking about
> > schema.org, so this briefing, which describes the schema.org
> > specification for a technical audience should be of interest to
> > anyone thinking about implementing or using LRMI in a website or
> > other tool. It should also be of interest to people who plan to use
> > schema.org for describing other types of resource."
> >
> > You can download the briefing from
> > http://publications.cetis.ac.uk/2014/960
> >
> > I've seen schema.org being used by some digital collections
> > including the Wellcome library, Cambridge University Digital
> > Library, and Duke University digital library[1], and recommended it
> > as one approach to making resources discoverable in the recent Jisc
> > guide[2]
> >
> > I'd be very interested to hear if any museums are already using
> > schema.org to either mark up general information (open hours,
> > location, etc.) or their online collections.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > 1.
> > http://blogs.library.duke.edu/bitstreams/2014/03/27/schema-org-and-g
> > oo gle-for-local-discovery-some-key-takeaways/
> > 2.
> > http://www.jisc.ac.uk/guides/make-google-searches-work-for-you#schem
> > a
> >
> > Owen Stephens
> > Owen Stephens Consulting
> > Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > Telephone: 0121 288 6936
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> > website: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
> > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
> > [un]subscribe: http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
> > ****************************************************************
>
> ****************************************************************
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> sender and then immediately, permanently delete it. Do not read,
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> This footnote also confirms that this e-mail message has been swept
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> Council. However, the recipient is responsible for virus-checking
> before opening this message and any attachment. Unless expressly
> stated to the contrary, any views expressed in this message are those
> of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of
> Bolton Council. http://www.bolton.gov.uk
>
> ****************************************************************
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