Statistically you're probably right, Mark, but it's the way this
madness comes at you when you get involved, and the more "innovative"
the scene the more madness there is (until recently when innovative
suddenly became respectable). The number of times I've found myself
thinking "How the hell did i get involved with this bunch of loonies?"
Thing is, I'm a quite ordinary sort of person who happens to be
interested in some of the more highly-wrought kinds of contemporary
poetry and don't expect because of that to have to deal with craziness
or, worse still, programmatic bad behaviour... There are still poets
around who think that outrageousness perversity self-destruction and
even aggressive violence are integral to artistic purpose. Surely an
inheritance from the 1890s, reinforced in the 1960s. The 1960s is what
Rosemary Tonks fled from, in a very 1960s way.
Peter
On 8 May 2014, at 18:03, Mark Weiss wrote:
I meant political ambition on the part of politicians, who are often
mad as hatters.
I'm aware of the research, so called about poets and manic-depression,
tho I don't buy it. May be true, but it's terrible research. I don't
think that the first or second generation modernists were
significantly more prone to madness than the population at large, tho
they're a hell of a lot more communicative about whatever
peculiarities they possess. Or are possessed by.
-----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: May 8, 2014 12:46 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Rosemary Tonks
>
> I was thinking mainly of early-mid C20 when "innovative" or
> "pioneering" writers were on their own or at best supported by small
> coteries or, as women, fighting dismissive prejudice (which continued
> at least to the 1980s). There's no doubt that the majority of
> "innovative" young poets now, men or women, are well-trained career
> successes and perfectly well behaved. Political worry is of course
> part of the job description.
> Pr
>
> On 8 May 2014, at 16:44, Mark Weiss wrote:
>
> I worry more about the correlation between political ambition and
> "sdp."
>
> I doubt that the correlation is stronger than with unadventurous
> poets, or with farmers, say.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: May 8, 2014 10:06 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Rosemary Tonks
>>
>> I'm glad I was (to some extent) wrong about the lack of interest. The
>> problem with Tonks is simple: you can't get at the poems because she
>> refused to let the books be reprinted. There are a few on-line,
>> presumably without permission, and a site called PoemHunter claims to
>> have a lot, though you can't actually read any of them, at the moment
>> anyway. We shall see what the family or heirs will allow, no doubt.
>>
>> It occurs to me to think at this point: Don't you sometimes worry
>> about the apparent correlation between verbally adventurous poetry
>> and
>> "severely disturbed personalities"?
>>
>> pr
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2014, at 10:59, Tony Frazer wrote:
>>
>> I saw this too. I hadn’t realised, until I saw it, how far Neil had
>> got in tracking her down. I tried myself a few years ago through the
>> usual channels of ex-publishers and agents but drew a blank. I still
>> have her 2 volumes from the 60s and think very highly of them; I’ve
>> not read her novels, of which there were 6 or 7, and they seem to
>> have
>> dropped out of existence as well. It would be good at least to have a
>> new compilation of her poems, including perhaps uncollected work from
>> magazines. Perhaps Bloodaxe will come to the rescue.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2014, at 09:48, Peter Riley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Rosemary Tonks has died, obituary by Neil Astley in yesterday's
>>> Guardian. No new revelations or hopes of public redress, but some
>>> interesting biography and family connections. There could be a
>>> thesis on C20 women who abandoned poetry in something like horror of
>>> its irresponsibility.
>>>
>>> I also get the feeling, perhaps wrongly, that nobody's much
>>> bothered. There was a flurry of excitement about RT in these
>>> circles some twenty years ago, but it took Neil Astley to follow up
>>> and attempt to do something.
>>>
>>> pr
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