Hi Becky,
One last thought. Have you spoken to RCAHMW as I'm sure they'll have some thoughts on the matter.
Matt
Matt Faber
Advisor – Image Digitisation
T 0203 697 5872
Twitter www.twitter.com/jiscdigital
One Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA
jisc.ac.uk
Jisc is a registered charity (number 1149740) and a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under Company No. 5747339, VAT No. GB 882 5529 90. Jisc’s registered office is: One Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA. T 0203 697 5800. jisc.ac.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage sector [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rebecca Brumbill
Sent: 26 March 2014 14:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology
Thanks so much to everyone who passed on their views and practises regarding digital ICE. My quest will continue with conservation members of our organisation, hopefully we will settle on a final decision soon.
Perhaps we will have 2 set procedures, one for internally produced slides and one for externally produced (i.e. donated material ) slides. Metadata to record exactly what method of scanning will be a definite though. One thing that was mentioned here was whether digital ICE technology can distinguish between dust and scratches and whether you can remove dust but not scratches. That¹s next on my list!....... unless anyone already knows?
Many thanks again,
Becky
Rebecca Brumbill
Image Management Officer / Swyddog Rheoli Delweddau Photography Department / Adran Ffotograffiaeth Amgueddfa Cymru National Museum Wales Cardiff / Caerdydd
CF10 3NP
Tel / Ffon: 029 2057 3136
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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On 25/03/2014 10:59, "Robin Maggs" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Hi Derin,
>I am also of the opinion that you should keep a high res master
>production scan that surrogates can be made from in the future in most
>situations.
>I don¹t want to be picky but I think there may be a little confusion
>over the way Digital ICE works in reference to the review you posted,
>in the review "where it removes windows etc" it is talking about a
>digital dust and scratch removal 'filter' which has to interpret the
>scan and then removes items. Digital ICE technology works differently
>by using an infrared scan pass to locate foreign bodies (dust) on the
>transparency and also scratches and holes in the emulsion where the IR
>passes right through. It does not interpret the scan, rather it locates
>areas where no photographic data from the emulsion can be recorded
>either because it is no longer there or is covered by grime. The
>accuracy and the way it paints in that missing data is a different
>discussion but as a tool for cleaning up the majority of dust it has
>worked very well for me in the past and can save hours of photoshop
>work if you are trying to create a commercial/useable image.
>
> I still agree with most on this subject that there is no single answer
>to the original question. I think collections need to be assessed prior
>to digitisation and a decision can be made about why the collection is
>being digitised. Any tools (ICE etc) used should be documented so as to
>not mislead researchers in the future as Damian refers to.(24/03/14) My
>personal view on in house produced photographic material of events and
>galleries/exhibitions etc depends again on why it is being digitised.
>If it is just to preserve a record of what is on the slides so they can
>be dumped and save space in an office then I think a bit of digital
>ICE and some basic levels would be fine but historical analogue
>photographic material (not including prints) should be treated very differently.
>
>Robin
>
>
>Robin Maggs
>
>Photographer
>
>Photography Department / Adran Ffotograffiaeth
>
>Amgueddfa Cymru National Museum Wales
>
>
>Tel / Ffon: 029 2057 3144
>
>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>From: Derin Korman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>Reply-To: "AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage
>sector" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:36:11 +0000
>To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>"
><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>Subject: Re: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology
>
>I would not trust digital ICE to carry dust and scratch removal, see
>this review
>http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20V700/page_9.htm
>where it removes windows in the picture and leaves some dust behind.
>The ideal would be to retain an as-is scan. Without a consistent,
>calibrated and characterized scan, there is no way to use the image as
>a reference for the image, in case it is needed for conservation
>purposes. A digitally restored variant that had color, scratch, fading
>corrections and such could be stored and delivered separately with
>clear metadata to mark it as such.
>
>d
>resm.co<http://resm.co>
>
>
>On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Anne Martin
><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>Hi Becky, indeed it is a good question and one which is a constant
>topic of conversation for us.
>
>We, like previous respondents, have adopted the reasoning that dust and
>scratches would not have been on the glass plates/slides/negatives etc.
>to begin with so we do remove the most obvious ones if they are
>detrimental to the image, especially if the image is to be used for
>publication purposes. We also adjust the colour balance where
>appropriate if the original has faded over the years.
>I would agree that it is really up to the individual organisations how
>they wish tackle this.
>
>Regards,
>Anne
>
>
>On 21 March 2014 12:21, Matt Faber
><[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>Hi Becky,
>
>This is a good question and I can see that you're receiving a lot of
>good advice from other colleagues. I think ultimately it comes down to
>whether the original image is considered an object or not and whether
>the removal of dust and scratches in destructive or not. I have in the
>past worked on photographic collections and using ICE was never
>considered as one had no control over what was being removed during
>scanning. I hope that helps.
>
>Regards,
>
>Matt
>
>
>Matt Faber
>Advisor - Image Digitisation
>T 0203 697 5872<tel:0203%20697%205872>
>Twitter www.twitter.com/jiscdigital<http://www.twitter.com/jiscdigital>
>One Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA
>jisc.ac.uk<http://jisc.ac.uk> Jisc is a registered charity (number
>1149740) and a company limited by guarantee which is registered in
>England under Company No. 5747339, VAT No. GB 882 5529 90. Jisc's
>registered office is: One Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA. T
>0203 697 5800<tel:0203%20697%205800>.
>jisc.ac.uk<http://jisc.ac.uk>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage sector
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of
>Rebecca Brumbill
>Sent: 21 March 2014 11:09
>To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology
>
>Dear All,
>
>If anyone can help I would be enormously grateful. We have been
>discussing our views and our working practise in the use of digital ice
>technology (automatically removing scratches using scanning software).
>
>Does anyone use digital ICE technology when digitising slides a) within
>their photographic collections that have been donated and b) when
>digitising slide collections of events / site visits that have been
>photographed by staff within your organisation? If so, do you store 2
>copies one with Digital ICE and one without?
>
>Considering in-house photography, we wouldn't dream of removing
>scratches from old glass plates that have been digitised, but are
>considering doing it for our slides, I suppose the real question is, at
>what stage do internally produced photographic collections become
>objects that need preserving in their own right? Also does anyone do
>colour corrections such as removing a cyan cast when scanning internal slide collections?
>
>Hopefully it all makes sense!
>
>With many thanks in advance,
>
>Becky
>
>Rebecca Brumbill
>Image Management Officer / Swyddog Rheoli Delweddau Photography
>Department / Adran Ffotograffiaeth Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum
>Wales Cardiff / Caerdydd
>CF10 3NP
>Tel / Ffon: 029 2057 3136<tel:029%202057%203136>
>E-mail:
>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]
>uk><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:rebecca.brumbill@m
>uk>use
>umwales.ac.uk>>
>
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>YMWADIAD
>Mae pob neges ebost a anfonir i neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei
>sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig er mwyn rheoli negeseuon
>digymell a dileu cynnwys amhriodol neu beryglus. Cafodd y neges hon ei
>sganio am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd fodloni'ch hun bod y
>neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio gan
>nad yw'r Amgueddfa'n derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o
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