Society (most civilised ones) censor child pornography. That does not mean movies must not deal with it because most civilised societies also use storytelling to educate and inform. The Wolf of Wall Street was probably seen by the film makers as self-evidently critical. I did not see it like that. But both or neither of us might be right.
Ethics has a subjective element which is why debates like this are such fun. For a healthy society we must try not to censor but to defeat arguments we do not agree with by reason.
Which is fine unless, as my mother used to argue, "Don't be rational about my neuroses." In which case it was a stalemate
Julian
Julian Friedmann
Blake Friedmann Literary Agency
Www.blakefriedmann.co.uk
+44 20 7387 0842
+44 7949 652 111
On 15 Feb 2014, at 18:08, "Andrew Gay" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I'm curious how those of you who teach screenwriting deal with this issue. I was very interested in Ann's comments about Wolf of Wall Street's objectification, as I find this is an issue I consistently struggle with as I teach young (mostly male), aspiring screenwriters.
Last semester I had enormous difficulty with a student who had written a short script that opened with a graphic rape scene that, in my view, had no artistic, narrative, or thematic justification. When I pushed back, the student accused me of trying to censor him. When I tried to suggest that screenwriting has an ethical dimension, he scoffed, arguing that an artist has the right to tell whatever story he wants to tell. My favorite response from him was that "I no more need to be an expert in rape to include it in my film than I need to be a chef to have a scene in which my character eats a five course meal." Yes, because rape is exactly the same thing as eating dinner. It kind of reminds me of the anecdote in which William Goldman recalls how he made Butch Cassidy a screenplay because a novel would have required too much horse research, and he hates horses.
Have any of you dealt with this problem? Anyone care to share innovative pedagogical solutions to exploring the ethics of screenwriting from the angle of practice?
Thanks!
Andrew Kenneth Gay
Visiting Assistant Professor of Film
School of Visual Arts and Design
University of Central Florida
[log in to unmask]
________________________________________
From: Screenwriting Research Network [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Bettina Moss [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
What an interesting discussion this is.
In terms of ethics in the telling of these stories, here is an interesting irony about the real life protagonist of Wolf of Wall Street that to me is relative to the discussion.
Belfort did a slap on the wrist prison stint (18 months) and writes his auto biography (let's hear the sound of that cash register opening), sells it to Scorcese with the studio paying for the option (more money flying out of the cash register), is lionized by the portrayal and his personal 'inspirational speaker' business goes through the roof (thanks to a testimonial from Leo DiCaprio), kaching, kaching, more bucks coming his way. He claims that his clients weren't really harmed because they were rich anyway - in other words no harm no foul when stealing from those who already have money. Now he's being interviewed by every big news outlet about his amazing new life for which he is 'grateful.'
I guess my concern in terms of this discussion is - does the representation of unethical behavior come with any responsibility on the part of the creators of that representation in terms of how it might play out in the real world? Would a condemnation of this obnoxious frat boy thief within the frame of the story have shaped what happened afterward to him?
Movies are so powerful in their impact on people who watch them. Are we responsible as content creators of also expressing an ethical message? I know that most people might say that is up to the interpreter of the message and maybe that's true in a perfect world but I think every content creator has an agenda (not meaning this in a pejorative way), because we have creative intent. Where do ethics come in when we as content creators think about our artistic agenda? I don't have any answers - this is just coming from my reading of this fascinating email exchange!
Best regards,
Bettina Moss
Associate Professor
Lead Faculty MFA in Professional Screenwriting
School of Professional Studies
National University
5245 Pacific Concourse Dr.
L.A., CA 90045
323-337-2016 (cell)
[log in to unmask]
We're on facebook and have a faculty bio page. Email me for the links!
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From: Screenwriting Research Network [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Vercauteren Hugo [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 2:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
Glad to hear from you Anubha,
Hugo
Op 15-feb.-2014, om 07:29 heeft anubha yadav <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> het volgende geschreven:
Very interesting points already made- want to put my hat-in with another perspective- in India the state has made it mandatory for all film-makers to put a small warning super(on films and television shows)- wherever a man/woman is smoking. The industry which is one of the most affluent and powerful, I guess just second to Hollywood cowered to the ask quite easily- and today in every shot where there is a character smoking, a warning comes-in- (many film-makers are researching the least conspicuous place and font to put it). So recently while I was writing a screenplay with a director, I had put a scene where a woman smokes, I think the director did not agree with the choice the character made - but instead she made me remove it by saying-"Do not put any smoking scenes as it means we have to put the warning." So a very interesting interplay of self-censorship your own projections of what good women do!? etc happened.
I am not sure there are easy answers here. The ethics discussion and ask from a screenwriter in terms of social responsibility can be a dangerous zone as we all have very subjective interpretations and understandings of ethics- but at the same time we cannot completely steer away from problems like 'beauty pornography' i.e use of women's bodies in popular and art house cinema. Incidentally, I am not sure I am comfortable with the way Lars von trier shoots/treats women in Nymphomaniac. But the only way to deal with it is perhaps how we deal with hate speech, we do not ban it, we just have more of the 'other'.
Anubha
Anubha Yadav
Assistant Professor
Kamala Nehru College
University of Delhi
New Delhi
India
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Julian Friedmann <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I agree with Ann about the moral paucity of The Wolf of Wall Street but there is a semantic problem in looking at the ethics of storytelling as having one meaning.
Scorsese would say you don't have to put up a banner to send a message.
Ethics and scriptwriting has different meanings depending on context. If a writer makes changes to a script (self censoring) to get a buyer but then persuades the director to shoot a different version (not uncommon ) is that a question of ethics?
Good discussion
J
Julian Friedmann
Blake Friedmann Literary Agency
Www.blakefriedmann.co.uk<http://www.blakefriedmann.co.uk/>
+44 20 7387 0842<tel:%2B44%2020%207387%200842>
+44 7949 652 111<tel:%2B44%207949%20652%20111>
On 13 Feb 2014, at 11:12, "ANN TOBIN" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Everybody,
This is, I think, a most interesting discussion. It seems to me that it is part and parcel of a much wider discussion going on across all sections of contemporary society - the early sexualisation of children, the websites that appear to encourage bullying and internet sexual harassment and sexual objectification. The women in Wall Street were universally portrayed as objects to be used, generally in a grossly sexist manner.
Unsurprisingly, screenwriting and filmmaking as one of the major contributors to the common cultural discourse is both reflecting and participating in these attitudes.
I had interesting discussions with our film students about The Wolf of Wall Street - broadly speaking (but not exclusively) the males all thought Wall Street was fantastic, loved the performance of Di Caprio, etc. The females were far less sure, felt it was bravura filmmaking but did not really like the characters and the film. Personally I disliked the film intensely - feeling it was completely amoral and made more problematic by the fact that it is so well made and acted. Films like M and Clockwork Orange were, I think, much more aware of what they were exploring and more importantly why. As with The Killing. There should be no hold on any subject matter in film art - but as people who are involved in the education of future filmmakers we must I think be very aware of these issues. Showing something is not enough. there needs, as David Simon said about The Wire, explorations of why going on as well.
Regards
Ann Tobin
________________________________
From: Jamie John Sherry <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014, 23:15
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
I would also add that much of the discourse around Martin Scorsese's recent 'The Wolf of Wall Street' (screenplay by Terence Winter) appears to concern the ethics and morality of Jordan Belfort and principally the decision by Winter to leave out the consequences of his actions, and to instead focus on the arena of the protagonist. Among some critics, academics and viewers this has become an important and problematic topic to discuss over and above more general comments regarding storytelling, filmmaking craft, editing, acting performances, etc.
An ethical issue here is not just the way the narrative is being presented, but also more industrial and financial concerns about what it may mean for a screenwriter to adapt a book written by, and therefore profited from, the "criminal" protagonist of that story. However, the debate also seems to echo many that have taken place over the previous decades concerning anti-heroes or morally ambiguous characters in film, including 'M', 'A Clockwork Orange', 'Chopper', 'The Killer Inside Me', etc. However, this appears to be less of an issue in contemporary television drama, which seems to positively encourage moral ambiguity as a necessity, and which is the industry that Winter has worked in most often ('The Sopranos', 'Boardwalk Empire', etc).
I do not have a strong opinion on the morality of 'The Wolf of Wall Street', or its production, but I do find the critical response interesting from an ethical screenwriting point of view.
Kind regards,
Jamie Sherry
________________________________________
From: Screenwriting Research Network <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Miranda Banks <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 12 February 2014 22:57
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
I second Steven's recommendation. Eva Novrup Redvall's book is excellent. I just finished reading it and found her insight on the series and the Danish industry fascinating.
All the best,
Miranda
-------------------------------
Miranda J. Banks, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Visual & Media Arts
Emerson College
http://mirandabanks.tv<http://mirandabanks.tv/>
________________________________
From: Screenwriting Research Network <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Steven Maras <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
Although I may be biased, Eva Novrup Redvall's discussion of double story telling in Writing and Producing Television Drama in Denmark: From The Kingdom to The Killing is very interesting
Best
Steven
From: Stewart McKie <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
Reply-To: Stewart McKie <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
Date: Thursday, 13 February 2014 2:05 AM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
Subject: Re: ethics in screenwriting
Hugo
Thanks for this post.
I'm interested in ethics too but from a different angle: identifying 'choices' in the screenplay, which may have an ethical angle, via analytics software.
Choices represent a 'decision network' that can be modelled and may lead to insight about a script.
I hope BBC4 buys UNSER M?TTER, UNSER FATER as I would like to see it.
--
Regards,
Stewart McKie
phd.tripos.biz<http://phd.tripos.biz/>
+44 (0)1747 812648<tel:%2B44%20%280%291747%20812648>
Sent with Sparrow<http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig>
On Wednesday, 12 February 2014 at 14:12, Vercauteren Hugo wrote:
Apology for those I am disturbing with this mail, I don't want to start a chat mail. Just wanted to tell this.
"Dealing with ethics in screenwriting".
Lately, I have been reviewing and analyzing the genius plots & plotpoints of the Danish tv series THE KILLING. I find this one of the best series I have ever seen (at least those I have seen). Because of the plot, or because of the ethics?
Yesterday we saw (on Belgian tv) the second episode of UNSER M?TTER, UNSER FATER, a German tv-series, about the history of 5 young German people in WW2 (their hopes, disappointments, guilty feelings). It is mainstream tv, sometimes with chocking scenes, but well made, and most of all: "very honest about their past". I am (and not only me) very impressed about the series.
Screenwriting and research on screenwriting is not only about the technique of creating a plot, but also about ethics, or is it not? (in German case "how do you deal with your own past"). Sometimes I have the feeling these ethics are lost in my own country. Screenwriters here don't deal with ethics, or do they?
Is "The Killing" also about ethics? Who wins in "the Killing"? Nobody. Is it about the darkness of our Western Society? Everything is connected in The Killing. The characters all seem to be on the edge of a Volcano. And if one of them falls, they all seem to fall. Society falls.
All this made me think. No more. Sorry if I disturbed you.
Hugo
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