Of course the Declaration of Independence and Magna Carta raise a whole different question about what counts as the original.
In the case of the Declaration of Independence is it the handwritten version which was signed by representatives of the Continental Congress after the 4th July or is it the Dunlap prints produced on the 4th July which were distributed to actually make the declaration real?
Likewise with Magna Carta what is the relative value of the different versions issued in 1215, 1225 and 1297? As the terms of the charter evolve each time does this make each an “original”? Does this mean that each has less or greater value or should they all be taken as a single evolving document?
Answers on a suitably sized piece of parchment (preferably vellum) or a digital equivalent!
Andrew Payne
Head of Education & Outreach
The National Archives
Tel: +44 (0)20 8392 5319
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
See our new document bundle about Attlee's Britain
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/topics/attlees-britain.htm
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cook, Bradley D
Sent: 06 December 2013 15:53
To: JISCMAIL Archives
Subject: Re: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
As an extreme example, here in the U.S.A., I always use the Declaration of Independence and/or the U.S. Constitution as an example as the extreme at one end of this argument; I don’t think any person would argue that you photocopy (or scan) and then throw away the original.
On the other end there are certainly records that can be, at the very least, sampled. As an example we used to have file cabinets filled with football ticket requests (that’s American Football and not what we call Soccer). This is a perfect example of a record that can be sampled. In this case I might also advocate that some statistics be compiled on the ticket requests being thrown away.
I’m not sure what you in the U.K. might consider to be your nation’s most important document (Magna Charta?), but whatever it may be I would say that there is your argument. You can also bring up personal/family documents that one would probably feel should be kept (e.g. birth certificates, photographs – particularly 19th and early 20th century images where the negatives no longer exist and were not born digital).
Thank you,
Bradley D. Cook - Curator of Photographs
Office of University Archives & Records Management
Indiana University
Herman B Wells Library E460
1320 East Tenth Street
Bloomington, Indiana 47405
812-855-4495<tel:812-855-4495>
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Visit our website at:
http://www.libraries.iub.edu/archives
VENI, VIDI, VICI.
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed Sharpe, Archivist for SMECC
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 10:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
In theory right... if the Orig. was a stored Email. that electronic image would be the 'true first'
Ed#
In a message dated 12/6/2013 8:31:53 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> writes:
And at that point we will lose many contemporary originals…
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ed Sharpe, Archivist for SMECC
Sent: 06 December 2013 15:24
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
Paper is good... when the 'PULSE' comes.... it will survive...
any device with semiconductor junctions will be toast....
Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC
In a message dated 12/6/2013 7:13:41 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> writes:
The 'original' document is always required for authenticity , yes.
The look and feel of a manuscript or 16th century paper document yes, too.
However the 'original' is also the blue print, loose the 'original' document and there is no going back, be it 15thC parchment or 21st electronic.
A lot of electronic records, such as pdf are security led and Microsoft Word have the security option, copyright plays a key role...
Also, would your friend bin a Monet or Turner original for a digital image?
Richard Aitken ACR
Senior Conservator,
High Life Highland,
Highland Archive & Registration Centre,
Bught Road,
Inverness
IV3 5SS
T: 01463 256438
M:07825 116513
E: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
W: http://www.highlandarchives.org.uk<http://www.highlandarchives.org.uk/>
Follow us on Facebook:
-----Original Message-----
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Meic Pierce Owen
Sent: 06 December 2013 13:57
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
Archivally I agree entirely...and this is where we are at this point...context and 'content v contact' (that is...what is of value
here- the content or the thing itself?)
-----Original Message-----
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Payne, Andrew
Sent: 06 December 2013 13:54
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
I would suggest a simple experiment as follows:
1. Select a suitably impressive document - something that has major
local or national historical significance or, if possible, one that would have deep personal resonance for him (even a personal family document). A holograph would be particularly good but it's not essential.
2. Transcribe said document into a suitably boring typeface e.g.
Arial 10 point, and print on to A4 paper or display as a Word document on screen (preferably with all the paraphernalia of menus etc)
3. Keep the original out of sight, but in a conveniently located box
(maybe with a cover and tied up in archival tape etc to add to the theatre).
4. Invite your sceptical friend in and say you wish to show them a
document that you think they will find interesting.
5. Reveal the transcript on screen or paper and discuss the
significance of the document with them to engage them with the "information" which the document holds.
6. Once they are suitably engaged, dramatically reveal the original
with plenty of theatre to help build their anticipation.
7. Present them with the original, allow them to handle it if
possible, and stand back to monitor reaction.
8. If he can genuinely say he is has no response to the original
document as an artefact (as opposed to simply a piece of "information") then check his pulse and breathing for signs of human life.
Good luck!
Andrew
Andrew Payne
Head of Education & Outreach
The National Archives
Tel: +44 (0)20 8392 5319
Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Web: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/>
See our new document bundle about Attlee's Britain www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/topics/attlees-britain.htm<http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/topics/attlees-britain.htm>
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan
Sent: 06 December 2013 13:02
To: JISCMAIL Archives
Subject: The most basic of Friday afternoon questions
Dear Colleagues
I have utterly failed my profession. Over a rather good bottle of red last Friday night I could not convince a friend of the importance of the original document (even though I have countered this several times for clients). He simply could not see why you could not just have copies and I was unable to find what to him was the killer argument. I thought this was an interesting fact as it perhaps displayed how the general public fail to understand why archives matter whilst all the time benefitting from their presence. My friend is very intelligent and certainly no cultural barbarian. So, I thought I would lay this one before my esteemed colleagues. I also thought that it might provide some of you with useful ideas for when it is your Chief Executive rather than a slightly tipsy chum throwing this one at you.
I look forward to all your comments, which I will then collate and pass on to said friend and see if I can change his mind. All responses welcome both serious and not so serious
With warm regards
Elizabeth
Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan Msc, MIC, RMARA Consultant Archivist and Director
Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan Associates
01939 234289/ 07719 609894
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]:[log in to unmask]>>
This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:ARCHIVES-NRA-request@JISCMAIL<mailto:[log in to unmask]:ARCHIVES-NRA-request@JISCMAIL>
.AC.UK>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a
holiday) see the list website at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
National Archives Disclaimer
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the
individual(s) to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email.
Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message and attachments that do not relate to the official business of The National Archives are neither given nor endorsed by it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a
holiday) see the list website at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients.
If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email.
Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system.
The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN.
It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it.
Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000.
General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454654.
General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775.
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
High Life Highland is a company limited by guarantee registered in Scotland No. SC407011 and is a registered Scottish charity No. SC042593. For more information about High Life Highland, please visit www.highlifehighland.com<http://www.highlifehighland.com/>.
Unless related to the business of High Life Highland, the views or opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect those of High Life Highland, or associated bodies, nor does this e-mail form part of any contract unless so stated.
Mura h-eil na beachdan a tha air an cur an cèill sa phost-d seo a' buntainn ri gnothachas High Life na Gàidhealtachd, 's ann leis an neach fhèin a chuir air falbh e a tha iad, is chan eil iad an-còmhnaidh a' riochdachadh beachdan High Life na Gàidhealtachd, no buidhnean buntainneach, agus chan eil am post-d seo na phàirt de chunnradh sam bith mura h-eil sin air innse.
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources. The information in this email is solely for the intended recipients. If you are not an intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, or distribute its contents or use them in any way: please advise the sender immediately and delete this email. Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited and TACTRAN do not warrant that this email or any attachments are virus-free and does not accept any liability for any loss or damage resulting from any virus infection. Perth & Kinross Council may monitor or examine any emails received by its email system. The information contained in this email may not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council, Live Active Leisure Limited or TACTRAN. It is possible for email to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the integrity of the information contained in it. Requests to Perth & Kinross Council under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act should be directed to the Freedom of Information Team - email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> General enquiries to Perth & Kinross Council should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475000. General enquiries to Live Active Leisure Limited should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 454654. General enquiries to TACTRAN should be made to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 01738 475775. Securing the future... - Improving services - Enhancing quality of life - Making best use of public resources.
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk.
Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Archives Disclaimer
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the
individual(s) to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient and
have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email.
Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message and attachments that do
not relate to the official business of The National Archives are neither given nor
endorsed by it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact the list owner for assistance at [log in to unmask]
For information about joining, leaving and suspending mail (eg during a holiday) see the list website at
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=archives-nra
|