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On 16 May 2013, at 00:08, "OCC-HEALTH automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 10 messages totaling 1818 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Workwell Resource list for strategic approach to OH
> 2. justification for increasing occ health hours (2)
> 3. client refusing to let OH send report to manager (4)
> 4. Reports and Data Protection (2)
> 5. Query-request for advice
>
> Hi
Yes, you will need consent. Does the Trust have a policy regarding this in place? Are you SEQOHS accredited?
J
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:27:24 +0100
> From: Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Workwell Resource list for strategic approach to OH
>
> Hi all
>
> Found this so sharing :)
>
> http://www.bitc.org.uk/programmes/workwell/workwell-resources
>
> Carr
>
> ********************************
> Please remove this footer before replying.
>
> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
>
> CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:36:13 +0100
> From: sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: justification for increasing occ health hours
>
> p of my head I would mention the points below - not necessarily in order of importance, and taking into account that we live in austere times What does the business want? Likely to be different to what you want....Beware of making claims to save money - you wont. You may increase operational efficiency/output that can be measured in financial terms but they will still pay out the same on their wages bill, but you may be able to demonstrate increased efficiency ie reducing sickness absence, amount of people on restricted dutiesAnything you do has to be backed up relevant policies from HR/H&S and the like, otherwise you will always be pushing uphillA retrospective on sickness absence over the last 12 months will be useful, count up the days lost, assign them a diagnostic (ICD10?) code, put it all on Excel and come up with some stats and pie charts, eg if the main cause of absence is MSD it may be worth retaining a physio, if it isnt a main cause of absence why spend the money? Target your activities to get the most back, identify the problem areas and suggest strategiesBe aware that this is a business - they are there to make moneyTheres a difference between essential, highly desirable and nice to have eg weight management groups would probably fall into the nice to have - unless you can demonstrate that you have a group of workers whose size affects their ability to do their job....Be specific, and be able to justify everything, prove you have covered all angle, including the risks and draw backsPink and fluffy wont convince them of anything, if you want P&F dress it up in business terms......Study the use of language, syntax and layout in official doucumentation - it will help if you offer them proposals in their chosen business language What is the work that has been identified that would warrant full time hours? Critically evaluate itwhat will it cost them - remember on costs in employers NI pension contributions etcwill you need additional input from other disciplines eg OHP, what will you need, frequency, what willl it cost and what benefits will there beBeware of striving to become all things to all men, otherwise youre in danger of becoming a replacement GP like service (sorry to ay - but BP clinics and the like)If you become all things to all men you will get swamped and lose focus, and thus forget you are meant to be supporting the needs of the business too.....Initiate a referral system - and stick to it I`m sure theres more.....Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:21:28 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] justification for increasing occ health hours
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> As the others say the best approach is to start with a health needs assessment so initially your extra days a week may need to be spent doing this as this will ensure a business focused commercially aware plan that meets helps place employee well-being at the centre of the organisation's culture. Part of this may also need to include looking at current attendance management programmes and services to see if they are fit for purpose and/or a review of how the business currently uses the OH service. A great resource is the CIPD/HSE absence management toolkit if you have not seen it before/
>
>
> I've attached a document on health needs assessment; it's not OH specific but it is worthwhile all the same as you just apply to the work population/
> Regards
>
> Carr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15 May 2013 16:56, Anna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> Find out what are the business priorities with regards their employees; as these differ greatly between businesses. I am working with a business that has grown exponentially and will be growing further; their priority is employee psychological health and ensuring that they manage the pressure appropriately to promote engagement and prevent illness. This is unusual. Other businesses it will be more about health protection - surveillance and associated programmes and others about managing ill health and sadly others it is about protecting themselves from litigation from ill health and capability.
>
>
>
>
>
> A great report for employee engagement and psychological wellbeing is the MacLeod report. I also like The Business in the Community model for wellbeing.
>
>
>
>
>
> Good luck
>
>
>
> Anna
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Hewlett" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:18 PM
>
> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] justification for increasing occ health hours
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi , elders and wise ones, i am an OH nurse working 3 days a week in a large manufacturing plant, there's lots of work to fill my day at present and i find i do screening, HR reports on those absent from work, work station assessments etc but i feel and my Health and Safety manager agrees that there is sufficient work for full time work. I have spoken to the HR dept and they agree so i have been asked to develop a business plan to justify the increase in hours for myself and the extra cost to the company.
>
>
>
> I have no idea where to start, i would like to start b/p clinics on site, smoking cessation, weight management groups,bring in outside companies and organisations to discuss mental health/stress issues. I know of a great local physio who i'm sure could help get employees back to work sooner or stop them needing to go off.All of these at the moment are things i haven't got time for but i don't know quite how to demonstrate the business needs,costs and benefits.
>
>
>
> Can anyone enlighten me please
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 19:39:25 +0100
> From: Joan McKie <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: client refusing to let OH send report to manager
>
> Hi
> A member of staff I met with recently does not want me to send my letter to her manager on the grounds that she self referred to OH. She did - but her manager also referred her by email (and copied her in). Am I at liberty to send it or must I wait until she agrees?
> Many thanks in advance and also for the massive help this site is and has been to me.
> Joan
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 19:48:16 +0100
> From: Liz <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: client refusing to let OH send report to manager
>
> Hi Joan
> No. You need the employee's explicit ant informed consent to release any information regarding her situation. You can of course tell the manager that she has declined consent having already discussed with the employee that her employer will then have to manage her employment without the benefit of knowledge of her medical situation/advice of OH. Advise employee that it may be in her best interest to consent to advice being offered by OH and if she needs convincing further, offer her a copy of your report to see and consent to before you send to employer.
> Regards
> Liz
>
> On 15 May 2013, at 19:39, Joan McKie <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> A member of staff I met with recently does not want me to send my letter to her manager on the grounds that she self referred to OH. She did - but her manager also referred her by email (and copied her in). Am I at liberty to send it or must I wait until she agrees?
>> Many thanks in advance and also for the massive help this site is and has been to me.
>> Joan
>>
>> ********************************
>> Please remove this footer before replying.
>>
>> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
>>
>> CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 19:32:17 +0000
> From: Tracy Turner <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: client refusing to let OH send report to manager
>
> Hi Joan. You need consent. The client can withdraw consent at anytime. In situations like this if the clients situation is having an effect on work or visa versa I always explain that the medical circumstances need not be disclosed ie. Mrs X has an underlying medical condition she does not wish me to disclose to the Business however in my opinion she would benefit from XYZ. I would also explain the benefits of writing a report and try to address any concerns the clients may have. Although verbal consent is enough I think in this case I would write the report, let the client read it and then obtain her signed consent to send it so that there is no chance of misunderstandings. Hope this helps. Tracy.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Joan McKie
> Sender: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> ReplyTo: Occupational Health mailing list
> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] client refusing to let OH send report to manager
> Sent: 15 May 2013 19:39
>
> Hi
> A member of staff I met with recently does not want me to send my letter to her manager on the grounds that she self referred to OH. She did - but her manager also referred her by email (and copied her in). Am I at liberty to send it or must I wait until she agrees?
> Many thanks in advance and also for the massive help this site is and has been to me.
> Joan
>
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>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:41:17 +0100
> From: Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: client refusing to let OH send report to manager
>
> Hi
>
> It is worth checking in with the client exactly what the barriers are to
> the report considering she self referred; is it the case she does not agree
> with the OH opinion and thinks blocking it will help her get her desirable
> outcome if she prevents OH advice being given? If so it may be worth
> explaining that Management will still make decision but without all
> possible advice and this may not be in her best interests.
>
> If she is concerned about confidentiality then you can reassure her as
> Tracy suggested however personaly I wouldn't even say "which she does not
> want me to disclose" ... as this gives the impression disclosure is
> organisationally "normal"? In any report the focus should be on the
> symptoms that affect function e.g. struggling to cope with normal working
> hours due to excessive fatigue/pain rather than the actual medical
> condition.
>
>
> If she still declines to share then document and close case advising
> management that you cannot advise as consent was not given. BTW it is
> likely that the manager "copying her in" on the email referral he sent
> would not meet the standards of "informed consent for referral". This may
> be an ideal springboard to discuss referral routes and processes with the
> organisation. This is often a reason why a lot of OH services do not allow
> self-referrals as it often results in time being taken up without an
> outcome for the business; of course this can still happen in management
> referrals but with full transparent and effective processes the risk is
> much reduced.
>
> Happy to chat off line if you want to discuss referral systems more as I
> have some free time at moment.
>
> Carr
>
>
> On 15 May 2013 20:32, Tracy Turner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Joan. You need consent. The client can withdraw consent at anytime. In
>> situations like this if the clients situation is having an effect on work
>> or visa versa I always explain that the medical circumstances need not be
>> disclosed ie. Mrs X has an underlying medical condition she does not wish
>> me to disclose to the Business however in my opinion she would benefit from
>> XYZ. I would also explain the benefits of writing a report and try to
>> address any concerns the clients may have. Although verbal consent is
>> enough I think in this case I would write the report, let the client read
>> it and then obtain her signed consent to send it so that there is no chance
>> of misunderstandings. Hope this helps. Tracy.
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Joan McKie
>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> ReplyTo: Occupational Health mailing list
>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] client refusing to let OH send report to manager
>> Sent: 15 May 2013 19:39
>>
>> Hi
>> A member of staff I met with recently does not want me to send my letter
>> to her manager on the grounds that she self referred to OH. She did - but
>> her manager also referred her by email (and copied her in). Am I at liberty
>> to send it or must I wait until she agrees?
>> Many thanks in advance and also for the massive help this site is and has
>> been to me.
>> Joan
>>
>> ********************************
>> Please remove this footer before replying.
>>
>> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
>>
>> CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>
>> ********************************
>> Please remove this footer before replying.
>>
>> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
>>
>> CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
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>>
>
> ********************************
> Please remove this footer before replying.
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:06:33 +0100
> From: kate owen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Reports and Data Protection
>
> I agree this is interesting. A 'notelet' response.
>
> As I see it, being an advocate is not giving/getting the client what they want. We all have to live in the real world and helping a client do that with their health issues and the circumstances life throws at them is the aim of any nurse.
>
> Therefore enabling and supporting them to make informed decisions yet remaining steadfast in respect of the impartial advice to management is my aim. I think we can be empathetic without compromising objectivity from a medical/health/fitness for work perspective.
>
> Regards
> Kate
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>
>
>
> Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
> Interesting question Julie – rather than an “answer on a post-card” it could be part of an excellent exam question.
>
> OH nursing is the only specialty within the nursing family where we have to be impartial and objective advisers to both employer and employee. It goes without saying that although we must practice within our NMC code of professional ethics, there are occasions when we are not the employee’s advocate – eg our advisory role for management referals. Patient advocacy under those circumstances is the preserve of the employee’s GP.
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Harriss
> Course Director
> LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY
>
>
> On 14/05/2013 22:27, "Julie Leonard" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> For many of us that is why we went into nursing -the subjective and advocacy as opposed to objective . Which is correct -morally ethically and professionally- answers on a postcard!!
>> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>> From: sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 22:17:40 +0100
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> ReplyTo: Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>> I go back to previously made comments (of mine) that we all need to beware of becomingg an "advocate" for the employee and also the inherent desire to want to DO something for an individual in difficult circumstances. I have an issue at the mo about the value of saying "No" as if we dont it dilutes our objectivity and thus our perceived value to employers. Doesnt sit well sometimes but.......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:14:51 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Hello Sharon,
>>
>> In respect of your first point. Whether it refers to an individual or third party I usually say 'significant home life stressors that you are cognisant of'.
>>
>> Of course, this relies on it being included by the line manager in the referral. I cannot conceive that I would divulge the medical conditions of a third party in any situation, however it is something i will now be self checking.
>>
>> If the LM had not stated the particular situation in the referral then I think I would say 'significant home life stressors that the client feels able/ does not feel able to discuss with you'.
>>
>> Either way, then I would then go on to identify any medical issues and particularly whether the issues were non-medical. I would point out what the medical interventions were, if any, and those (like you say) that would be best dealt with by the organisations' HR policies and such like. I would say that absence from work could in itself become a protaganist to health issues but I recognise that this needs to be balanced with the impact of the home pressures.
>>
>> Ultimately the organisation needs to support as best it can with its 'objectively applied' policies, but the medical issues generally speaking for a 'relative of the sick person' (i.e. the OHA client) are limited.
>>
>> That said did you read/hear about the investments in carers the RCPG are recommending?
>>
>> I have no simple answer (no one does), but being clear as to what is a medical issue/fitness for work issue and what is not is for us as OH profesionals to advise on. Unfortunately we need to recogniise what situations we are unable to resolve for our clients, even though they are often heart renching situations.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Kate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:25 PM
>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a lively debate - management referrals regarding people absent/wanting restricted hours/duties because of the stresses of domestic issues/carers responsibilities etc.
>>
>> I have some concerns in that I am seeing OH reports alluding to things like a spouses illnesses and treatment. The caveat being that the employee has consented to the info being included in the report. My point of concern is - yes thats as maybe but - reports containing clinical detail (however broadly painted) about the domestic/clinical issues of someone who is NOT an employee should be discouraged (eg his wife is commencing chemotherapy next week so a reduction in hours has been recommended.....) and may be seen as a breach under DPA. I have additional issues about managers referring to OH to comment but thats for another day.....
>>
>> And again I wonder about the "medicalisation" of such issues. While I would encourage thinking about "health" in a wider and more holistic context I have concerns that OH are being asked to make provision, under the heading of "medical grounds" for issues that may be better catered for under HR policies eg special leave, carers leave etc.
>>
>> I know there has been some discussion re this in the past - any comments or experiences that may be helpful?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ********************************
>
> ********************************
> Please remove this footer before replying.
>
> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:19:21 +0100
> From: Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: justification for increasing occ health hours
>
> Sharon's advice about the language you use to management is excellent; in a
> project I was seconded to I obtained the organisations "action plan"
> template which was a traffic light system and wrote the OH related
> attendance management strategy in that format. I got excellent feedback
> on using this format as it was recognised and understood and they saw me as
> understanding their operational methods which helped get their buy in on
> what I was attempting (some of which was controversial)
>
> Carr
>
>
> On 15 May 2013 18:36, sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> p of my head I would mention the points below - not necessarily in order
>> of importance, and taking into account that we live in austere times
>>
>>
>> - What does the business want? Likely to be different to what you
>> want....
>> - Beware of making claims to save money - you wont. You may increase
>> operational efficiency/output that can be measured in financial terms but
>> they will still pay out the same on their wages bill, but you may be able
>> to demonstrate increased efficiency ie reducing sickness absence, amount of
>> people on restricted duties
>> - Anything you do has to be backed up relevant policies from HR/H&S
>> and the like, otherwise you will always be pushing uphill
>> - A retrospective on sickness absence over the last 12 months will be
>> useful, count up the days lost, assign them a diagnostic (ICD10?) code, put
>> it all on Excel and come up with some stats and pie charts, eg if the main
>> cause of absence is MSD it may be worth retaining a physio, if it isnt a
>> main cause of absence why spend the money?
>> - Target your activities to get the most back, identify the problem
>> areas and suggest strategies
>> - Be aware that this is a business - they are there to make money
>> - Theres a difference between essential, highly desirable and nice to
>> have eg weight management groups would probably fall into the nice to have
>> - unless you can demonstrate that you have a group of workers whose size
>> affects their ability to do their job....
>> - Be specific, and be able to justify everything, prove you have
>> covered all angle, including the risks and draw backs
>> - Pink and fluffy wont convince them of anything, if you want P&F
>> dress it up in business terms......
>> - Study the use of language, syntax and layout in official
>> doucumentation - it will help if you offer them proposals in their chosen
>> business language
>> - What is the work that has been identified that would warrant full
>> time hours? Critically evaluate it
>> - what will it cost them - remember on costs in employers NI pension
>> contributions etc
>> - will you need additional input from other disciplines eg OHP, what
>> will you need, frequency, what willl it cost and what benefits will there be
>> - Beware of striving to become all things to all men, otherwise youre
>> in danger of becoming a replacement GP like service (sorry to ay - but BP
>> clinics and the like)
>> - If you become all things to all men you will get swamped and lose
>> focus, and thus forget you are meant to be supporting the needs of the
>> business too.....
>> - Initiate a referral system - and stick to it
>>
>>
>> I`m sure theres more.....
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:21:28 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] justification for increasing occ health hours
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> As the others say the best approach is to start with a health needs
>> assessment so initially your extra days a week may need to be spent doing
>> this as this will ensure a business focused commercially aware plan that
>> meets helps place employee well-being at the centre of the organisation's
>> culture. Part of this may also need to include looking at current
>> attendance management programmes and services to see if they are fit for
>> purpose and/or a review of how the business currently uses the OH service.
>> A great resource is the CIPD/HSE absence management toolkit if you have not
>> seen it before/
>>
>> I've attached a document on health needs assessment; it's not OH specific
>> but it is worthwhile all the same as you just apply to the work population/
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 May 2013 16:56, Anna <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Find out what are the business priorities with regards their employees; as
>> these differ greatly between businesses. I am working with a business that
>> has grown exponentially and will be growing further; their priority is
>> employee psychological health and ensuring that they manage the pressure
>> appropriately to promote engagement and prevent illness. This is unusual.
>> Other businesses it will be more about health protection - surveillance and
>> associated programmes and others about managing ill health and sadly others
>> it is about protecting themselves from litigation from ill health and
>> capability.
>>
>> A great report for employee engagement and psychological wellbeing is the
>> MacLeod report. I also like The Business in the Community model for
>> wellbeing.
>>
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>> Anna
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Hewlett" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:18 PM
>>
>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] justification for increasing occ health hours
>>
>>
>> Hi , elders and wise ones, i am an OH nurse working 3 days a week in a
>> large manufacturing plant, there's lots of work to fill my day at present
>> and i find i do screening, HR reports on those absent from work, work
>> station assessments etc but i feel and my Health and Safety manager agrees
>> that there is sufficient work for full time work. I have spoken to the HR
>> dept and they agree so i have been asked to develop a business plan to
>> justify the increase in hours for myself and the extra cost to the company.
>> I have no idea where to start, i would like to start b/p clinics on site,
>> smoking cessation, weight management groups,bring in outside companies and
>> organisations to discuss mental health/stress issues. I know of a great
>> local physio who i'm sure could help get employees back to work sooner or
>> stop them needing to go off.All of these at the moment are things i haven't
>> got time for but i don't know quite how to demonstrate the business
>> needs,costs and benefits.
>> Can anyone enlighten me please
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 20:36:32 +0000
> From: Julie Leonard <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Reports and Data Protection
>
> - I agree with the comments made. Over the years I have been the mediator between managers and employee and impartiality is the key. - I have had my major successful results when my impartial advice to both employer and employee has been followed
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kate owen <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 21:06:33
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>
> I agree this is interesting. A 'notelet' response.
>
> As I see it, being an advocate is not giving/getting the client what they want. We all have to live in the real world and helping a client do that with their health issues and the circumstances life throws at them is the aim of any nurse.
>
> Therefore enabling and supporting them to make informed decisions yet remaining steadfast in respect of the impartial advice to management is my aim. I think we can be empathetic without compromising objectivity from a medical/health/fitness for work perspective.
>
> Regards
> Kate
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>
>
>
> Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
> Interesting question Julie – rather than an “answer on a post-card” it could be part of an excellent exam question.
>
> OH nursing is the only specialty within the nursing family where we have to be impartial and objective advisers to both employer and employee. It goes without saying that although we must practice within our NMC code of professional ethics, there are occasions when we are not the employee’s advocate – eg our advisory role for management referals. Patient advocacy under those circumstances is the preserve of the employee’s GP.
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Harriss
> Course Director
> LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY
>
>
> On 14/05/2013 22:27, "Julie Leonard" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> For many of us that is why we went into nursing -the subjective and advocacy as opposed to objective . Which is correct -morally ethically and professionally- answers on a postcard!!
>> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>> From: sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 22:17:40 +0100
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> ReplyTo: Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>> I go back to previously made comments (of mine) that we all need to beware of becomingg an "advocate" for the employee and also the inherent desire to want to DO something for an individual in difficult circumstances. I have an issue at the mo about the value of saying "No" as if we dont it dilutes our objectivity and thus our perceived value to employers. Doesnt sit well sometimes but.......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:14:51 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Hello Sharon,
>>
>> In respect of your first point. Whether it refers to an individual or third party I usually say 'significant home life stressors that you are cognisant of'.
>>
>> Of course, this relies on it being included by the line manager in the referral. I cannot conceive that I would divulge the medical conditions of a third party in any situation, however it is something i will now be self checking.
>>
>> If the LM had not stated the particular situation in the referral then I think I would say 'significant home life stressors that the client feels able/ does not feel able to discuss with you'.
>>
>> Either way, then I would then go on to identify any medical issues and particularly whether the issues were non-medical. I would point out what the medical interventions were, if any, and those (like you say) that would be best dealt with by the organisations' HR policies and such like. I would say that absence from work could in itself become a protaganist to health issues but I recognise that this needs to be balanced with the impact of the home pressures.
>>
>> Ultimately the organisation needs to support as best it can with its 'objectively applied' policies, but the medical issues generally speaking for a 'relative of the sick person' (i.e. the OHA client) are limited.
>>
>> That said did you read/hear about the investments in carers the RCPG are recommending?
>>
>> I have no simple answer (no one does), but being clear as to what is a medical issue/fitness for work issue and what is not is for us as OH profesionals to advise on. Unfortunately we need to recogniise what situations we are unable to resolve for our clients, even though they are often heart renching situations.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Kate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:25 PM
>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] Reports and Data Protection
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a lively debate - management referrals regarding people absent/wanting restricted hours/duties because of the stresses of domestic issues/carers responsibilities etc.
>>
>> I have some concerns in that I am seeing OH reports alluding to things like a spouses illnesses and treatment. The caveat being that the employee has consented to the info being included in the report. My point of concern is - yes thats as maybe but - reports containing clinical detail (however broadly painted) about the domestic/clinical issues of someone who is NOT an employee should be discouraged (eg his wife is commencing chemotherapy next week so a reduction in hours has been recommended.....) and may be seen as a breach under DPA. I have additional issues about managers referring to OH to comment but thats for another day.....
>>
>> And again I wonder about the "medicalisation" of such issues. While I would encourage thinking about "health" in a wider and more holistic context I have concerns that OH are being asked to make provision, under the heading of "medical grounds" for issues that may be better catered for under HR policies eg special leave, carers leave etc.
>>
>> I know there has been some discussion re this in the past - any comments or experiences that may be helpful?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:51:23 -0400
> From: Lynda M Bruce <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Query-request for advice please
>
>
> Dear All
> I have a client who is a food producer.
> They areasking employees to use a hand sanitizer and its alleged this is causing skin problems.I have seen some employees with minor skin irritation.
> As part of my assessment I asked to see the COSHH assessments and the safety officer has advised me that he does not do a COSHH assessment on the sanitizer as its intrinsically safe.
> All my other clients have COSHH assessments on soap and sanitizers as both products are indeed hazardous if not used properly causing dryness irritation stinging and on occasion dermatitis or exacerbating eczema
> However before I say more I thought I would seek peer group opinion-look forward, as always to the informed feedback.
> Hope you do not mind
> Kind regards
> Lynda Bruce
> Scotland
>
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> End of OCC-HEALTH Digest - 15 May 2013 (#2013-188)
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