medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I don't know enough about medieval canon law to evaluate Karl's assertion here within the context of Meg's Icelandic instance. But there is plenty of evidence that in the western Church as late as the thirteenth century ecclesiastical writers referred to the _ordinatio_ of nuns. See Gary Macy, _The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination: Female Clergy in the Medieval West_ (Oxford University Press, 2008), and the same scholar's "The Ordination of Women in the Early Middle Ages", _Theological Studies_ 61 (2000), 481-507 (accessible at <http://www.ts.mu.edu/readers/content/pdf/61/61.3/61.3.4.pdf>). If nuns, who in secular law had the benefit of clergy, were thought of as having been in some sense ordained, then equally they can be thought of as having been degraded when in individual instances it is apparent that they lost that benefit.
Best,
John Dillon
On 04/01/13, Karl Brunner wrote:
> No, I wanted to say, that there its no proper term, because the whole action is in the sight of canon law illegal. The writer only borrowed the term from an other kind of case. yours
> Karl
>
>
> Am 01.04.2013 um 16:01 schrieb "Cormack, Margaret Jean" <[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>>:
>
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> > Karl,
> >
> > Are you saying that "degradation" IS in fact the proper term in this case?
> > Meg
> > From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Karl Brunner [[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>]
> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 2:23 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] degradation from office
> >
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > Now, a nun was a consecrated person, by a bishop preferable, when she was veiled, and therefore nobody was allowed to touch her, for whatever reason. So, that's my interpretation, they looked for a kind of justification for their in every sense criminal dead, and found a parallel with the degradation of a priest. yours
> > Karl
> >
> > Am 01.04.2013 um 01:06 schrieb "Cormack, Margaret Jean" <[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask])" target="1">[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> >
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture P { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px } P { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px }
> > > Greetings all,
> > >
> > > I´m wondering if 'degrade' is the correct very to use for removing someone from ecclesiastical status - in this case, a nun, and the word used in my (Icelandic) text is in fact an Icelandicized form of Latin 'degradere' (with appropriate verbal ending, I haven´t looked it up). I´m wondering how we would express this today? The reason for her demotion (could I say she was 'demoted'?) was blasphemy against the pope (in later versions, signing a pact with the devil and sleeping with many men) and afterwards she was burned. All this in 1343, the first example of anyone being burned for anything in Iceland.
> > >
> > > Meg
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