Hi Elizabeth,
It may not work. However, I don't see any option but to try our utmost
to cool the Arctic and save the sea ice - enlisting the best brains in
the business - pulling out all the stops - treating it as a war effort.
Failure would have such unimaginable consequences for us all.
Cheers,
John
--
On 22/04/2013 22:57, E.M. Cary wrote:
> Do you really think geo-engineering of some sort will really be able
> to reverse a lot of this?
>
> I would hope so, but am a bit sceptical...
>
> Elizabeth Cary
>
> On Apr 22 2013, Veli Albert Kallio wrote:
>
>> There are four sections in Greenland's perimeter that are facing the
>> increasing stress from the warmed and wet ice sheet above the coastal
>> barrier. The largest one of these is the Melville Bay's coastal
>> perimeter (Image 1). The other ones are the Petermann Ice Fjord, the
>> Independence Ice Fjord, and quite possibly, the Ilulissat Ice Fjord
>> (although it is located in region that is generally becoming more
>> buoyant with the bed rocks rising). The other fjord systems are not
>> large enough to wear to the sea level however much water will stream
>> through them. They simply fizzle themselves out (as the tongue of ice
>> retreats onto the dry land).
>>
>> Greenland ice sheet is readily subsiding the bedrocks on Melville Bay
>> - although still at extremely moderate rates (Image 2) which at
>> present do not yet suggest immediate concerns of any major subsidence
>> event. While Greenland is becoming more buoyant elsewhere, the water
>> accumulation within ice on the north and north west Greenland is
>> pressing the bed rocks down harder in these regions.
>>
>> The ice heft (height) is also impacted by Melville Bay's weak land
>> containment barrier (Image 3) that allows more ice to escape on
>> downhill flows with the rise of the ice sheet somewhat subdued where
>> the perimeter barrier is minimal.
>>
>> The sea bed in front of Melville Bay has fractured bed rock structure
>> with large silt-filled fissures opened in the past as the coastline
>> bent and subsided (Image 4). In nearby areas - where the land isthmus
>> between ice and sea is wide - the bed rocks on seabed appear smooth
>> and unbroken.
>>
>> Unlike today's mild subsidence, Melville Bay has seen vast and sudden
>> subsidence events in the past - as evidenced by the immense bed rock
>> fissures and associates turbidic rock falls on the sea slope (Image 5).
>>
>> The few fractured rocks that jut out of ice in Melville Bay seem to
>> have stresses from the moving ice and subsidence that is thrusting
>> these obstacles towards the ocean - with fissures opening on the
>> rocks seen on aerial photographs (Image 6). This section, if it
>> failed in massive Storegga-style rock fall, can trigger massive
>> tsunamis that hit the Baffin Island's east coast communities.
>>
>> Namely, a similar plug structure once held back the Foxe-Laurentide
>> Ice Dome on the Hudson Strait between the southern tip of Baffin
>> Island and the northern tip of Newfoundland (Image 7). According to
>> Wally Broecker, when this plug failed, it resulted Heindrich Zero
>> [H0] ice berg calving event as the wet ice sheet remainders cascaded
>> into the ocean from the Hudson Bay (Image 8).
>>
>> Vast ice berg grounding marks are today found from deep sea floor
>> opposite to the Hudson Strait off South West Greenland coast at 1200
>> metres below sea level which were produced by large ice islands. I
>> suggest that this resulted in a sudden generic sea level jump and the
>> instant Younger Dryas cooling (see the article: Image 9).
>>
>> In post-sea ice Arctic Ocean (ice-free oceans around Greenland), a
>> metamorphosis of Greenland Ice Sheet occurs from the cold, dry,
>> stable and moraine-forming ice sheet into the warm, wet, dynamic and
>> aggregate-forming ice sheet can potentially unleash similar collapse,
>> Heindrich Minus One (H-1) event with subsequent Last Dryas severe
>> cooling as the ocean basin between America and Europe once again
>> fills with the discharged ice debris from Greenland a "Day After
>> Tomorrow" style. (Image 10).
>>
>> The H-1 / Last Dryas Greenland Ice Sheet destabilisation event will
>> represent the last sea ice recovery and ocean desalination epoch in
>> the Northern Hemisphere although Ronald Emmerlich poorly assigned the
>> cause in his global warming film. Despite of the cold, I would
>> suggest this as the last opportunity to reverse the underlying
>> climatic warming by furthering "mini ice age" by climate
>> geoengineering. The reason being that in post sea ice Arctic will
>> have high methane levels, sea level jump removing the global dimming
>> effect of sulphur dioxide and other pollutants from industrial
>> sources as world's maritime trade goes disarray. We have advocated
>> the above case history since the first Rio de Janeiro summit in 1992
>> as the correct case history for the demise of the Foxe-Laurentide Ice
>> Dome remainders from the Hudson Bay area when the last ice ages came
>> to their ultimate end. In particular it is disappointing as we have a
>> list of 28 rock formations (sites) we think are in process of heading
>> towards the above said scenario.
>>
>> We should see a further rises in ice quakes in Greenland growing
>> exponentially over the next few years as the metamorphosis from the
>> cold and dry ice to warm and wet ice occurs. The base of Greenland
>> ice sheet converts into a water-clogged honeycombed ice that lacks
>> the internal strength to withstand the pressures from the overlying
>> cold and dry ice layers that sit above the slushy base. As the base
>> destabilises the ice sheet above breaks into large ice blocks that
>> then fall into ocean as ice islands during Heindrich event. The ice
>> sheet thrust occurs against perimeter with rapid erosion forces
>> (cavitation, plucking and kolking) aiding its demise. I have
>> suggested, that if Melville Coast becomes a future mouth of sea
>> inlet, similar to the mouth of Hudson Strait (Images 1, 7 & 8), that
>> this would be called the Banyacya Strait as per the First Nations of
>> Americas who put their idea of rapid ice sheet end to the UN General
>> Assembly back in 1992 citing their ancient recollections of the
>> events that had occurred in their distant collective memory.
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:07:06 +0100
>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> Very interesting, Aaron. Only problem is, as fast as one might
>>> re-freeze the Arctic, GHGs would soon get to work again...what do
>>> you think?
>>>
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>> On Apr 20 2013, Aaron Franklin wrote:
>>>
>>> >Yes it is possible to refreeze the arctic. All we need is a few
>>> hundred
>>> >ships and a few thousand fire pumps
>>> >On Saturday, April 20, 2013, E.M. Cary <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> >> Is it really possible, now, to re-freeze the Arctic?
>>> >>
>>> >> Elizabeth Cary
>>> >>
>>> >> On Apr 19 2013, John Nissen wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, Peter, I should have mentioned the risk from submarine slide
>>> in >> the
>>> >Arctic, as one of these caused a mega-tsunami (~20 metres) on the east
>>> >coast of Scotland, about 8000 years ago [1].
>>> >>
>>> >> Such a tsunami is one of the greatest concerns of scientists
>>> working >> on
>>> >Arctic methane.
>>> >>
>>> >> Obviously there is a risk of triggering a submarine slide from >>
>>> drilling
>>> > for methane hydrate. However the denial of the Arctic climate >
>>> emergency is nothing to do with that. It's not a commercial, cynical
>>> > denial. It's to do with other processes in the Arctic and the >
>>> life-threatening implications for all of us. It's to do with the >
>>> vicious cycle of warming and melting of snow and sea ice, with >
>>> dramatic loss of their reflective cooling effect, which threatens
>>> (i) > abrupt climate change through weather extremes, (ii)
>>> multi-metre sea > level rise, (iii) global warming catastrophe -
>>> with or without the > methane. It's too big for most people to
>>> handle, so they suppress the > thoughts.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is a tragedy in the making, since the window of opportunity for
>>> > action to cool the Arctic and refreeze the ice is closing rapidly.
>>> > This golden opportunity for international collaboration with a
>>> common > goal of survival is being ignored, even by the top advisers
>>> to > government and people like Jim Hansen.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >>
>>> >> John
>>> >>
>>> >> [1]
>>> > > > >
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunamis_affecting_the_British_Isles#Scotland_tsunami.2C_6100_BC
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >> On 19/04/2013 17:29, PR CARTER wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "PR CARTER"<[log in to unmask]>
>>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:10:36 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi John there is a documemted methane hydrate Europ tsunami risk.
>>> >>
>>> >> Practically all world govts large and small are invested in mining
>>> >methane hydrate for natural gas as the next big fossil fuel bonanza.
>>> >>
>>> >> The universal govt denial of the Arctic climate planetary
>>> emergency is
>>> >largely because of the methane hydrate development agenda.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Peter C
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "John Nissen"<[log in to unmask]>
>>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 8:30:15 AM
>>> >> Subject: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >>
>>> >> Did anybody watch the programme last night on BBC2? I watched it
>>> >> today online. The mega-tsunami would be so large that nothing
>>> could >> prevent the loss of a vast number of lives.
>>> >>
>>> >> It only mentioned one source of tsunami, from the Canary Islands,
>>> >> but there's also a source from the Greenland Ice Sheet, if a
>>> chunk of >> that slid into the sea. Potentially, it could produce a
>>> tsunami of >> one or two orders of magnitude larger! There is
>>> geological evidence >> that chunks of ice sheet/dome have slid off
>>> in the past, creating >> giant icebergs which crossed the North
>>> Atlantic, depositing material >> as far as the coast of France.
>>> >>
>>> >> The threat to the UK was rediculously underplayed, with Brighton
>>> and >> Bournemouth being the only towns specifically mentioned for
>>> damage, >> and London assumed to be safe. The Bristol Channel would
>>> funnel the >> tsunami, producing much more damage than the tsunami
>>> that occurred >> there a few centuries ago. The nuclear reactor
>>> sites in the channel >> (about 7 of them) have never been considered
>>> for defence against a >> mega-tsunami.
>>> >>
>>> >> One interesting point from the US was that, if there were an advance
>>> > warning, half the population would go into denial and not take any
>>> > notice.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is the same denial as we are seeing from global warming -
>>> and >> more specifically from Arctic warming. We have had wake-up
>>> calls for >> action, as the sea ice retreated dramatically to a
>>> record minimum in >> 2007 and with another downward plunge last
>>> year, and on course for >> near zero sea ice in September 2015. With
>>> the loss of sea ice causing >> warming of the Arctic far above the
>>> global average, the jet stream >> behaviour is disrupted and we are
>>> experiencing weather extremes that >> can only get worse [1]. This
>>> is climate change writ large. Yet the >> government and government
>>> advisers are in denial. No action is >> proposed which could
>>> possibly have a significant effect on the >> necessary timescale to
>>> remediate the situation - and adaptation is >> absurd - as it is for
>>> a mega-tsunami!
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >>
>>> >> John
>>> >>
>>> >> [1] ht
>>> >
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