I think any discussion of how different groups of Jewish people responded
to their oppression needs to take account of the political differences
within the Jewish community, in particular the relation between the
socialists in the Bund, who championed Yiddish, and the Zionists, who were
generally Hebraists.
Those interested can see a useful summary of some of these issues at:
http://haruth.com/YiddishHebrew.html
I am not sure how useful it is to reduce the complexities of Jewish views
on their oppression and how to combat it into a single viewpoint. The same
can equally be said of any other ethnic groups.
Bearing in mind that many children constitute in their make-up all sorts
of combinations, I'm not sure how useful being over-prescriptive in
language usage might necessarily might be.
In this context it may be useful to turn to Dubois' concept of "Double
Consciousness".
all the best
Fabian
>
> I am not suggesting that we should not teach history in such a way
> that our children will appreciate what went wrong in the past.
>
>
>
>
> Our children should learn about history which includes the
> Maafa. I don't, however, think that it's by using unhelpful language
> when writing amongst ourselves that our children will learn for
> example that during trans-Atlantic enslavement, enslaved Africans
> were deemed to be property.
>
>
>
> Jewish people were called horrible names by those who operated the death
> camps, etc. They have not let anyone off the hook, and
> do not let anyone forget about the holocaust. They do this without
> describing themselves the way they were described by their
> oppressors.
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 16:46:15 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nelson and African crew on his ship
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> I share your concern.
> It is for this reason that I suggested teaching both of these two
> perspectives—not just 'their point of view' (as is the current practice)
> and not just 'our point of view' (which is what you propose).
> Why is it at all important for us to teach our children what 'their point
> of view' was? I take it that 'their point of view' was wrong—morally
> wrong. If we scratch from historical record all historical perspectives
> that were morally incorrect, then we leave our children unable to point to
> what was morally wrong about what happened in the past. To tease out this
> problem, I offer you a similar example from my own work. My postdoctoral
> research is entitled 'Why was Negro slavery wrong?'. (I describe the
> research, here: http://natcphd.me.) I am currently seeking employment to
> pursue this research at a British university. I was considering applying
> to King's College London. To this end, I approached Dr Toby Green. Dr
> Green's reply to me was very kind, but the following comment put me off
> pursuing the application: 'I would avoid the word Negro - no
> self-respecting Africanist or historian uses it today'. It strikes me
> that, by giving me this advice, Dr Green is encouraging me to participate
> in the whitewashing of history. From 'their point of view', it was not
> slavery, it was 'Negro slavery'. If we remember this and if we teach this
> to our children, then we and our children can hold 'them' morally
> accountable for the wrongful perspective they took towards other persons.
> If we forget this and if we fail to teach this to our children, then we
> let them, and 'their point of view', off the moral hook.
> Nathaniel Adam Tobias Coleman
> On 31 Mar 2013, at 16:25, HARROW bhm <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I
> would have thought that we would write from our point of view, and
> not perpetuate the perception that enslaved Africans were property.
> If we are happy with language that denigrates us, why complain when
> Gove and others use unhelpful language when writing from their point
> of view?
>
>
>
> The
> history books are full of language and imagery from an unhelpful
> point of view. I don't think it is useful to add to it.
>
>
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:29:54 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nelson and African crew on his ship
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> From the point of view of those who trafficked in them, these persons were
> commodities and were exported.
> From their own point of view, these persons were persons and were sent.
> Might our children not benefit from being taught both of these
> perspectives?
>
> Nathaniel Adam Tobias Coleman
> On 31 Mar 2013, at 15:19, msherwood <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I see what you mean, and agree. Thanks. However, as I doubt that the men
> ‘volunteered’, they were, sadly, not treated very differently from
> ‘commodities’. From: The Black and Asian Studies Association
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of HARROW bhm
> Sent: 31 March 2013 14:53
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nelson and African crew on his ship ...others were exported
> to the colonies... Sent not exported. We are referring to human beings. As
> we are pointing out unacceptable language used by Ministry of Education,
> we should be mindful of language we use.
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/export?s=t Export verb (used with
> object) 1. to ship (commodities) to other countries or places for sale,
> exchange, etc. 2. to send or transmit (ideas, institutions, etc.) to
> another place, especially to another country. 3. Computers. to save
> (documents, data, etc.) in a format usable by another software program.
> We are talking about human beings, not commodities, ideas or documents.
> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 08:01:51 +0000
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nelson and African crew on his ship
> To: [log in to unmask] I do not wish to denigrate the men who served
> in the Anti-slave trade squadrons, we have to admit the possibility that
> some had signed on in the hope of making a fortune out of the
> prize-monies. On the ineffectiveness of the Squadron (and of the
> agreements signed with other slaving European governments) for many years,
> and the ongoing trade in enslaved Africans, please see my After Abolition
> (IB Tauris, 2007) We also have to recognise that many Africans died aboard
> the captured vessels as they had to remain there until the Court reached a
> decision on their fate. Of those released, many were forced into serving
> ‘apprenticeships’ in Sierra Leone, others were exported to the colonies in
> the West Indies while some were ‘recruited’ into the local army. Fro
>
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