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Dear All,
I've found the discussion thrilling. Here's my two cents worth:
Children's Cultures seems to be the most inclusive, and the most academic of the terms. (Thank you, Andy.)
I see Childlore as the subset, the focus on the actual genres of play/belief/material culture within the larger field of Children's Cultures.
In other words, we collect Childlore, but make sense of it within the field of Children's Cultures.
wishing each of you well,
Anna
Anna Beresin, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Liberal Arts
The University of the Arts
________________________________________
From: The Children's Folklore Mailing List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of June Factor [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
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Interesting and important distinctions, Andy. I'm all for fuzzy, and that other f word: flexible. And while English/Australian is good at making compound words, we here in Oz resemble France in our academic neglect of folklore. Time for a scholarly revolution in both countries!
Regards,
June
-----Original Message-----
From: The Children's Folklore Mailing List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andy ARLEO
Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2013 7:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
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Thanks, Julia, for launching such an interesting discussion. Here are a few thoughts.
I find childlore a handy compact term in English, but it doesn't translate well in languages (like French for ex.) that can't compound as easily as English or other Germanic languages (the same would be true of playlore).
I agree with June that playlore is close to childlore, but I think there may some areas included in childlore, such as traditional beliefs and superstitions, that may not qualify as play.
In France, where folklore studies are not a recognized academic field and "folklore" often has negative connotations, people often use "la tradition orale enfantine", children's oral tradition, which is close to childlore/children's folklore. However, childlore studies also deal with material folklore and written traditions (e.g. yearbook inscriptions, writing games, etc.). Furthermore, introducing the term "tradition" tends to exclude kids' appropriation of commercial mass culture.
"Children's cultures" is for me the broadest term, and may include what children learn as members of the overall culture, from other age groups and from various sources including the media and mass commercial culture, and how kids reinterpret and appropriate this input. It is a term I used with sociologist/ethnologist Julie Delalande when we organized an international cross-disciplinary conference in Nantes in 2007. We discuss our definition of that term in the introduction to Cultures enfantines : universalité et diversité, the book we edited based on that conference. The expression "children's peer cultures" might be used to stress what kids do (more or less) on their own.
The bottom line for me is that all these concepts are necessarily fuzzy, which is not a bad thing because we can adapt them to different purposes and contexts. I like to say that in research as in life it's sometimes good to be fussy and sometimes good to be fuzzy!
Cheers,
Andy
Le 25 févr. 13 à 16:24, [log in to unmask] a écrit :
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>
> Right!
> -
> -Now we will play, the teacher said
> -Do that, the kid said, I'll run three times around the house while
> you are playing....
>
> My definition of culture is as follows
>
> Own eksperience
> received information from outside.
>
> That's all.
>
> We are genetically programmed to obtain informations from our own body
> and from the environment. We are programmed to do this after very
> close regulated systems, how to learn a language - any language that
> excist - we have the tools to learn it. The informations we have
> gathered and the ability to put them to use and link them to other
> informations, are what I call culture. Etc.
>
> This dosen't contradict the ordinary way of understanding culture, it
> only brings it closer to its origin. It works wonderfull for me in my
> studies.
> Right now I'm teaching an indonesian antropologist and sociologist
> this and I hope she will disagrea so we can discutt many exciting
> topics in the future. I will take this opportunity to thank all you
> wonderfull people for all the help you have given me up till now!
> Thor G.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: June Factor [log in to unmask]
> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:48:41 +0000
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>
>
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> You're right. Thor. The word 'play' has more than one meaning for
> children as well as adults. Years ago I recall an account of a small
> group of little girls playing 'school' somewhere outside Oxford. The 3
> or 4 'students' were giggling and mucking about, until the 'teacher'
> finally exploded and
> shouted: 'If you don't stop playing we won't play!'
> June Factor
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Children's Folklore Mailing List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2013 12:29 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>
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> There is a difference between the playlore of a child and the playlore
> of a teacher. The child is not able to visualize the teacher when the
> teacher was 12 years and played that specific game. The child and the
> grown up has different referances. When the teacher think he or she is
> teaching the children how to play Fair Rosie what the kids learn is
> how a teacher behave when he or she wants to teach children how to
> play Fair Rosie.. I've often seen children imitates teacher teaching
> children how to play...
> Thor G.
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: June Factor [log in to unmask]
> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 12:33:04 +0000
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>
>
> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
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>
> I think that distinction - childlore = the folklore of childhood -
> makes it a useful term. I also use the term playlore, which is close
> to being a synonym of childlore.
> Regards,
> June
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Children's Folklore Mailing List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of bishop julia
> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 9:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>
> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
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>
> Thank you, all, this is really helpful! Like Steve, I think that the
> term tends to sound a bit esoteric - even more than 'children's
> folklore'! But my impression (perhaps wrong!) is that it is used to
> refer to the folklore *
> of* children, rather than folklore *for *children and, if that was the
> case, it would be useful so as not to have to clarify 'children's
> folklore'
> all the time!
>
> Best, Julia
>
>
> On 25 February 2013 08:40, Steve Roud <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
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>>
>> I thought it was of recent coinage -perhaps 1970s, and a search of
>> JSTOR for articles with 'childlore' in the title showed the first to
>> be Brian Sutton-Smith's 'Psychology of Childlore', Western Folklore,
>> 1970.
>> But when I searched again for the word in the full texts, I was
>> amazed to find it (as 'child-lore') in Journal of American Folklore
>> in 1891, in the American Anthropologist in 1907, and so on.
>> In the results as a whole, The word is never frequent, but there is a
>> definite increase in frequency in the 1940s. I didn't notice any
>> instance of the word outside the folklore/anthropology fields and
>> certainly I tend not to use it to outsiders but only amongst family
>> and
> friends.
>> I think this is borne out by its use in book titles - nothing in the
>> British Library catalogue before 2010, nine instances in Worldcat,
>> starting in 1975 with Brian Sutton-Smith again (Library of Congress
>> Catalogue is down).
>> I don't have time at the moment, but a search of the online newspaper
>> archives might help nail it.
>> Steve Roud
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 5:13 AM
>>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>>
>> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
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>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> the term may be conected to Iona and Peter Opies book Lore and
>> language of english school children in 1959?
>> Thor G.
>>
>> Original Message:
>> -----------------
>> From: June Factor [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 01:14:03 +0000
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Origin of term 'childlore'
>>
>>
>> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
>> mailing, it will be distributed to everyone on the Childlore List.
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>>
>> Good question, Julia. I think I've been using it since the 1970-80s,
>> and suspect it may have been coined or at least come into wider usage
>> among American folklorists. But that's just a guess. Rosemary Zumwalt
>> uses the term in her chapter on the complexity of children's folklore
>> in Brian Sutton-Smith et al's Children's Folklore: Source Book, and
>> it appears in a note to Brian's own Overview chapter in the same
>> book.
>> Regards,
>> June
>>
>> Dr June Factor
>> Honorary Senior Fellow
>> School of Historical & Philosophical Studies University of Melbourne
>> Vic. 3010 Australia
>> T: 61 3 9499 6151
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Children's Folklore Mailing List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]**UK <[log in to unmask]>] On
>> Behalf Of bishop julia
>> Sent: Monday, 25 February 2013 7:49 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Origin of term 'childlore'
>>
>> **Please note that if you press the Reply button to respond to this
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>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I feel rather silly asking if anyone knows this, considering our list
>> is named 'childlore' and I named it such! But does anyone know when
>> this term, as a shortened form of 'children's folklore', was coined,
>> and
> by whom?
>>
>> Thank you for your help!
>>
>> Best wishes, Julia
>>
>>
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