Dear Noah et al

sorry to hear about the use of the big stick had but yes was getting a
bit ott.

I'm just back from an informal research and work trip to Luxor where I
seem to have become unofficial
anthropologist of the "qurnawis" and will return to make some more film
next year -
or sooner if things pan out. The gurnawis are the people who have lived
on top of the theban necropolis for perhaps last 1000 years and
have a highly ambigious relationship with the antiquities there, as
labour force of the archaeological excavation but a lot more. They are
into lots of things that interest me greatly and seem to like me and are
willing to chat. I'll put some of that on line shortly.

They are islamic but self identify as sufi and perhaps more. I actually
found it easier to talk about any aspect of magic which is seen as
part of islam, koran etc etc. Perhaps more difficult to understand is
magic as a religion in own right or as part of a pagan tradition?
Interesting one of my informants thought that the cult of amun-min
(which I'd say is still part of the local mind set!) - was itself an
early expression of the truth of the Koran. Amun is in some way
equivalent to Allah - interesting that both words are similar in meaning
- or rather amun means "mysterious" - god if you like.
Not sure if this also related to valedictory amen/imen at end of
islamic/judaic prayers?

senebty

mogg




Many thanks for the post and love your work. On 12/02/2013 14:24, Noah
Gardiner wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> That's a great question and one well worth addressing, as it seems to
> me that something of a persecution complex prevails in the field.
>
> As someone working on the occult sciences in medieval Islam I think my
> work has been well received, and, though very few senior professors
> work predominantly on these matters, I know a great number of doctoral
> student working on topics closely related to mine. I've had to deal
> with some raised eyebrows at conferences, but it definitely hasn't put
> me at a disadvantage for funding or conference placement, my adviser
> (who doesn't focus on these topics per se) is incredibly supportive,
> and I know people who are getting tenure-track jobs with dissertations
> on these subjects. That said, I've certainly made efforts not to
> confine my work to a bubble, which is to say I'm always looking for
> ways to draw connections to more widely-discussed topics: manuscript
> studies, Sufi studies, materiality, etc. For me it's a matter of not
> getting pegged as working solely on a 'boutique' subject. Really, the
> only place I sometimes run into trouble is when I'm in the Middle East
> (as I am now, in Cairo), where I definitely tread lightly with local
> academics who sometimes still find these topics embarrassing,
> irreligious, etc.
>
> With all that said, I've no doubt that some on this list would find my
> work painfully 'straight' and historicist (I am a historian after
> all). I focus on the vagaries of the transmission of
> controversial/heterodox works in manuscripts, on analyses of
> discourses around the occult sciences, etc., in efforts to examine how
> they fit into the broader sociointellectual ecology of medieval
> Islamdom. This is to say that I'm not an 'out' practitioner trying to
> discuss the 'reality of magic' in my academic work, nor am I
> Pereniallist, etc. To forestall any practitioner/academic flamewars,
> let me state emphatically that I in no way mean that as an attack
> against again anyone who might fit those descriptions. Rather, I
> mention it as it may well be pertinent to my rosy outlook on the state
> of the field.
>
> - Noah
>
>
> On 2/12/2013 3:35 PM, David Green wrote:
>> Thanks a lot Ruth, Lita and Mike,
>>
>> What surprised me was not the prejudice on show so much as the lack
>> of understanding about the nature of the list and what people have
>> tried to do in recent years to give the academic study of magic some
>> credibility within the academy. So beyond the personal unpleasantness
>> - luckily moderating the list has thickened my skin to the point of
>> elephant hide - does the list think that there has been a shift in
>> attitudes within the academy or are we still operating very much at
>> the margins and tolerated with suspicion?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> Dr Dave Green
>>
>> Senior Lecturer in Sociology, University of the West of England,
>> Bristol, UK
>>
>> Society for the Academic Study of Magic (SASM):
>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC
>>
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=653230719
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
>> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike
>> [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 12 February 2013 13:11
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Dear List ...
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I have been 'lurking' on this list for a few years now and always
>> find it a
>> useful and professional source of good academic information.
>>
>> Prof. Segal's behavior was unacceptable on a number of occasions and
>> he was
>> given more than enough chances to change it. His expulsion from this
>> list
>> is both deserved and well overdue, regardless of his academic
>> credentials.
>>
>> Thankfully, as far as his behavior and attitude is concerned, he is not
>> representative of academics in general. Thanks for exercising good
>> judgment
>> in removing him from this list.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> www.esoteric-experience.org.uk
>> Mystical Experience Required, Enquire Within!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Green" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:40 AM
>> Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Dear List ...
>>
>>
>> Dear list-members,
>>
>> I thought that I would share this with you. Since the deletion of Prof
>> Robert Segal following his many spats with N.W. Azal, I have received a
>> number of increasingly abusive offlist rants - to which I won't reply
>> because they are pompous, self-regarding and hysterical - regarding his
>> disbelief that he was deleted. This is his latest (and thought I
>> would share
>> because this is clearly what he thinks of the contributors here):
>>
>> "Your list seems to attract C-listers: nonacademics, career PhD
>> students,
>> and staffers at former polytechnics.
>>
>> You never did recognize the difference between disagreement and
>> bigotry. It
>> is you who should have been apologizing to me.
>>
>> Our paths will never cross again.
>>
>> RS
>>
>>
>> The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No
>> SC013683."
>>
>>
>> Ironically, he sought my advice about setting up his the myth
>> JISCMAIL list
>> because of the positive experiences he had on here. I like the man as an
>> academic, though I often disagree with his takes on Jung and
>> Campbell, but
>> honestly, is this what academia is about? It's just depressing ...
>>
>> Dave=
>>
>