The memorial in Salisbury Cathedral, and a fine one, that I think Tim refers
to, is that of the Hon Edward Wyndham Tennant(himself a war poet), a
Grenadier officer killed on the Somme in 1916 - but he is buried close to
where he fell in Guillemont Road War Cemetery.

Certainly some officers were buried privately before the policy was decided
- the most famous example is the Zillebeke Church Cemetery, south of Ypres
in Belgium - sometimes referred to as the Aristocrat's graveyard - mostly
officers of the Foot Guards or Household Cavalry who died in 1914 during the
1st Battle of Ypres - some of these early ones have private headstones.

Yours
Christopher 
Colonel CJ Newbould CBE
Battlefield tours & lectures
"Bringing the Past to Life"
www.spiritofremembrance.com





-----Original Message-----
From: To exchange information and views on the life and work of Rudyard
Kipling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Connell, Tim
Sent: 06 January 2013 20:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: War graves

And there may be some for officers of good family in the odd cathedral. I
believe there is one for a subaltern in Salisbury Cathedral, who died early
in the War, so that may have gone up before a policy had been decided.

Tim
___________
Tim Connell
Professor Emeritus City University
___________
07754 48 46 52
________________________________________
From: Christopher Newbould [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 January 2013 17:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: War graves

It is certainly true that one of the earliest principles of the War Graves
Commission was that all of our dead would be treated the same, with no
private memorials being permitted. That principle was adhered to throughout
both World Wars. There are a few exceptions that can be found in war
cemeteries that are near former Base areas, where it is clear that old
habits died hard. At Etaples War Cemetery for example, although all ranks
have the same headstone, the officers have been buried together, separate
from the men and on slightly higher ground. I always find this rather sad
when I go there.

Yours
Christopher
Colonel CJ Newbould CBE
Battlefield tours & lectures
"Bringing the Past to Life"
www.spiritofremembrance.com




-----Original Message-----
From: To exchange information and views on the life and work of Rudyard
Kipling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of IMAP AIM
Sent: 06 January 2013 11:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: War graves

Pinney has a useful note to a letter in Vol 5, p.18

>>
the plans of the War Graves Commission, since they had become generally
known at the end of 1918, had provoked a determined oppostion to 3 main
points: the provision of a headstone rather than a cross; uniformity of
treatment for all graves; and the refusal to allow repatriation of the
remains. The conflict came to a head in the parliamentary debate of 4 May
1920, when the policies of the Commission were affirmed.
>>

The letter itself, to Col. Lewin, shows Kipling standing behind the
Commission's policies. He notes particularly that equality of treatment
'confirms and admits equality of sorrow' -- which forms the principle that
he, no democrat, holds to, in this situation.

John Lee




On 6 Jan 2013, at 11:39, Richards, David wrote:

> I thought Kipling's contribution on this question was rather to stand 
> firm
with his IWG Commission colleagues behind the proposition that officers and
other ranks would have the same uniform, individual grave marker, instead of
allowing different headstones or markers by rank, and instead of shipping
officers' bodies home (as was done I believe early in the war, before the
scale of the slaughter was known and made that economically improbable even
for recoverable bodies) and leaving other ranks to lie abroad.
>
> See my bibliography for the discovery of Kipling's preface to the 
> Cook's
brochure for travel to the battlefields of Belgium and France, which were
really cemetery tourism for the widows, parents, siblings and orphans of the
dead.
>
> Dave Richards
>
> From: To exchange information and views on the life and work of 
> Rudyard
Kipling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alastair Wilson
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 4:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: War graves
>
> I don't know the answer to Fred's specific question, but I would think
that it was pretty generally a 'given' that all were buried together.  So
far as I am aware, in earlier wars, all the dead were buried together,
usually in common graves (you can't go and visit the individual grave of a
five-greats-grandfather who died at Waterloo).  So when the IWG Commission
was formed, I suspect that it was already in the terms of reference that the
dead from one area would all be buried in a single cemetery - but I don't
know.
> It is quite instructive to look at how differently different parishes
recorded their dead.  Many, possibly the majority, just recorded their
names, in alphabetical order.  Others recorded their names in alphabetical
order, but recorded also their rank or rating, and sometimes their regiment
or ship.  And a few (the parish church which I attended when I was growing
up was one), recorded the officers first, followed by the men.
> Alastair Wilson
>
>
> On 06/01/2013 00:16, Fred Lerner wrote:
> A colleague asks, "Do you know if it was Kipling's idea to bury the 
> men
and officers together rather than in separate places, in contrast for
example to their separate hospitalizations in England?"
>
> I don't, but I expect that someone on this list will.
>
> Fred Lerner
>
>
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