Hi, 

Apologies to adding to your already crowded post-holiday emails, but I would like to clarify an issue and provide some information in response to Michael and Robert's emails, as well as a number of other emails I received off-list, and I'm not sure how many are on the other discussion platforms. 

Concern has been expressed that there has been little interest shown in Race and Ethnicity initiatives, but I think this needs to be clarified. As Karim pointed out and I said in my email before the holidays, the response to the Race and Ethnicity Sub-Stream (proposed at the 2012 conference) for the 2013 conference has been great. Yet, because of the emails discussing low levels of interest in another initiative, some confusion has occurred and a number of people who have been accepted for sub-stream have emailed me thinking it will not run. If I am correct (but please correct me if I am not), Michael's initiative which is being discussed is the 'Celebrity Panel', but as that was based around invitations to a select group, the number that expressed or did not express interest in participating may not be representative of wider group interest. I know that many of us would have been very interested in attending. In fact, I had hoped to discuss linking it to the sub-stream to increase the RESG presence.

Regarding wider group interest, this is best illustrated by the Race and Ethnicity sub-stream and the data Michael requested. We were initially allotted 5 sessions and the response was so high that 2 roundtables had to be added. In addition to this, some sessions had the number of papers included increased, and some very good abstracts which overlapped with other areas were included elsewhere (in the Social Divisions and Identities Stream and another in one case). Of course, there were some rejected abstracts as well (apologies, I don't have those numbers). All abstracts were subject to review by the Social Divisions and Identities convenors, Geoff Payne, Stephanie Lawler and myself. In the end, we have 5 sessions plus 2 round tables tagged as as 'Race and Ethnicity Sub-Stream' with a total of 29 papers. The issues, themes and topics they address are diverse, including: sociological research and methods, migration, citizenship and belonging, racism(s), xenophobia, identities, labour and employment, criminal justice and 'security', youth, media and whiteness - with a good combination of theory, applied and empirical research, as well as presenters (like the topics and issues) from different 'sub-disciplines', different regions of the UK and from different countries. 

I think this speaks to the diversity of the group and subject area as opposed to just 'fragmentation', and if the group is to grow and thrive this diversity should be constitutive of it. I also think that the response to the sub-stream shows the potential and provides an excellent argument for the development of a full stream in future, as well as more RETG activities.

Apologies again for adding to your emails. I agree that in the future the website forum should be used for such discussions and will do so. 

Best Regards, 
Aaron
  
Dr. Aaron Winter
Lecturer in Sociology
School of Social & Health Sciences
University of Abertay Dundee
Kydd Building
Bell Street
Dundee
DD1 1HG
UK

Tel. + 44 (0) 1382 308227
Email: [log in to unmask]

http://abertay.academia.edu/AaronWinter
________________________________________
From: Race & Ethnicity Study Group/Forum (BSA) List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Karim.Murji [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 1:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BSA-RACE] BSA conference

I don’t agree Max.  The comparison with MedSoc is misleading – as is the discussion of fragmentation - as that is so big it’s well beyond a study group.

A study group doesn’t need huge numbers to be lively – as you’ll recall when this one was revived it was only about 6-10 people. (And the Birkbeck seminars some people will recall from earlier were run by just 2-3 people).  It does need people who want to set up activities and develop ways in which email and web based forums can work.

I am not alone in pointing out to Michael that most of us have more than enough email to deal with to take much part in lengthy discussion.  The space for that, as I suggested, is the BSA website or the Facebook group for those on that. There are 80+ people on that, at least 30-40 BSA members on Michael’s RESG mailing list, and an unknown number on this list.  There is a notable conference on Race and citizenship in July which this study group has no involvement with.

The email list should act as a notice board – and it works reasonably well as that in my view

My understanding is that there are a significant number of papers for the stream in which race papers are located at the annual conference.  I don’t know the number, I have heard that some papers with a race theme were turned down, partly for lack of space.

Karim


________________________________
From: Max Farrar [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 January 2013 13:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BSA-RACE] BSA conference

For what it's worth, my impression is very much like Robert's - but since I've never been a proper sociologist my impressions don't really count for much. I suspect the big problem for those of us interested in the sociology of  'race' is that there are just too few of us to make a study group really hum. Compounded by the fact that the people in post are under the combined hammers of teaching and producing REFable 'outputs' so there just isn't the time to devote to a study group. (It's no accident that scribes like Michael, Robert and me are retired.) But Robert's point about NGOs and policy is well worth following through. It links to his implication that so many people in sociology have turned so strongly to theory (unless they are in specialist areas like education and health) that they are sceptical about the 'applied' areas where the sociology of 'race' would be so useful. My own interests now are almost entirely in the 'applied' - which means lots of interesting voluntary work in the s-called voluntary sector. Can I hear the shout: "Roll on retirement"? In the meantime, I hope you can keep the study group going - it does make a difference.

dr max farrar
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
www.maxfarrar.org.uk<http://www.maxfarrar.org.uk>







On 6 Jan 2013, at 13:01, Moore, Robert wrote:

The low or non-response to the proposals for our contributions to the BSA conference connects directly with Michael’s discussion of fragmentation. It’s certainly true that sociology has become fragmented into specialisms; before I retired I was increasingly being told by under- and post-graduates that they resented being asked to do certain kinds of work because they weren’t that kind of sociologist! I’m sure we’ve all met one or two people in posts in sociology departments whose views make it very hard to understand how they can hold such posts and keep a straight face. By contrast fields like medical sociology are now virtually free-standing, I gather the BSA MedSoc conference is a very large affair almost to rival the BSA itself. I guess it’s much the same for the sociology of education where they probably have a critical mass of writers and research workers to create a self-sustaining collegial culture.
Within our field itself there has certainly been a divergence of interests and approaches, the effects of which are exacerbated by the conditions of academic employment – many seem to be obliged either to dig deeper and deeper in very narrow research holes or to participate in large collaborative research ventures, in order to meet the requirements of the REF …. and so on.
I know none of us is going to do it, but it would be instructive to review all the emails in our list over a number of years and lay them out on a grid, with substantive topics on one axis and theoretical orientation along the other. I’m sure we would find significant clusters (though perhaps quite small ones). It would be an especially interesting exercise if the theoretical orientation axis could somehow be scaled so that we may see how far apart we really are. By the way, I know I contribute to fragmentation myself because whenever I see the word ‘football’ I hit the delete button – yet I know news reports that race and racism are important issues in football.
There must be both substantive and theoretical divisions in medical sociology, sociology of education, sociology of religion etc and colleagues working in these fields experience the same working conditions as most of us. I know there are also strong ideological differences among scholars in these fields. So how is it that they are able to sustain the levels of activity that we have never achieved – is it just a question of numbers in the field, or something else? It may be that the process of falling apart is slower with larger numbers! Some on this list will undoubtedly be on other lists – so tell me if I have misread the situation; are medical and educational sociologists (for example) having similar exchanges to ours and finding it increasingly difficult to hold themselves together?

On a slightly different but related note, I have attended a number of conferences organised by NGOs (and government departments) where the findings of substantive research in the fields of race relations, immigration, hate crime, forced labour etc have been presented and discussed. The discussions are, of course, set almost entirely in policy frameworks and nearly always lack the theoretical clarity and development that we would expect in our own work. But the empirical work is usually good. I know some on this list will eschew engagement with some of these organisations, but maybe we are missing a trick or two by not engaging more fully with policy communities.

Robert




Professor Robert Moore
School of Sociology and Social Policy
Eleanor Rathbone Building
The University of Liverpool
L69 7ZA

Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email list is maintained by the BSA Race & Ethnicity Study Group.  Visit the BSA website for further information about the group: http://www.britsoc.co.uk/specialisms/RaceandEthnicitySG.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Please DO NOT REPLY to this message - unless it is for circulation to ALL list subscribers ***

To reply to the sender of this message, use ONLY their email address, NOT the main list address.
To post a NEW message to this list, email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> (requires subscription)

To unsubscribe from this list, email [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>, leave the Subject line blank, and in the message body write:
UNSUBSCRIBE BSA-RACE-ETHNICITY-ANNOUNCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email list is maintained by the BSA Race & Ethnicity Study Group. Visit the BSA website for further information about the group: http://www.britsoc.co.uk/specialisms/RaceandEthnicitySG.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Please DO NOT REPLY to this message - unless it is for circulation to ALL list subscribers ***
To reply to the sender of this message, use ONLY their email address, NOT the main list address.
To post a NEW message to this list, email: [log in to unmask] (requires subscription)
To unsubscribe from this list, email [log in to unmask], leave the Subject line blank, and in the message body write: UNSUBSCRIBE BSA-RACE-ETHNICITY-ANNOUNCE

--
The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email list is maintained by the BSA Race & Ethnicity Study Group. Visit the BSA website for further information about the group: http://www.britsoc.co.uk/specialisms/RaceandEthnicitySG.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Please DO NOT REPLY to this message - unless it is for circulation to ALL list subscribers ***
To reply to the sender of this message, use ONLY their email address, NOT the main list address.
To post a NEW message to this list, email: [log in to unmask] (requires subscription)
To unsubscribe from this list, email [log in to unmask], leave the Subject line blank, and in the message body write: UNSUBSCRIBE BSA-RACE-ETHNICITY-ANNOUNCE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Email list is maintained by the BSA Race & Ethnicity Study Group.  Visit the BSA website for further information about the group: http://www.britsoc.co.uk/specialisms/RaceandEthnicitySG.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** Please DO NOT REPLY to this message - unless it is for circulation to ALL list subscribers ***

To reply to the sender of this message, use ONLY their email address, NOT the main list address.
To post a NEW message to this list, email: [log in to unmask] (requires subscription)

To unsubscribe from this list, email [log in to unmask], leave the Subject line blank, and in the message body write:
UNSUBSCRIBE BSA-RACE-ETHNICITY-ANNOUNCE