... at last! Thanks Ian, I was going to ask it to end by saying, 'Might
a woman step between them?'
Cheers,
Tilla
.
On 15 Dec 2012, at 09:08, ian davidson wrote:
> Dear All
>
> I have been away for a few days and only just picked up this exchange.
>
> The list should not be used for personal attacks. We might have strong
> views about poetry, and the ways it is supported and distributed, but
> that should not spill over into attacks on individuals, present or
> absent.
>
> Ian Davidson
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 14 Dec 2012, at 20:57, "Pam Thompson" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 Dec 2012, at 15:08, "Jamie McKendrick"
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Antony is right to protest at the list being used for this kind of
>>> exchange. I have to take some responsibility, although I replied
>>> civilly to the first taunt from David, his second achieved its
>>> presumably desired effect.
>>> For reasons surprisingly close to Jeffrey's (though Dylan as a
>>> great poet - rather than a brilliant songwriter?), I’m not troubled
>>> by David’s account of me as a minor poet, even if the remark by
>>> MacDiarmid seems too crass and snobbish to be worth quoting, let
>>> alone sourcing. Yet I wonder about this for two reasons. First, is
>>> that in the five or so years of contributing I have never made
>>> disparaging remarks about anyone’s poems on this list – whether the
>>> poets were present to defend themselves or not. And second, I've
>>> never mentioned my own books or translations (with the single
>>> exception of a translation of a Pasolini verse play). Had I in any
>>> way promoted my own work here, or even referenced or submitted any
>>> particular poem, I would see it as a more legitimate target for
>>> attack. Not that there’s anything wrong with anyone doing so, but as
>>> this is not the case, I consider it especially petty and
>>> provocative. Though of course I could have done, I have not replied
>>> in kind.
>>> What I object to more strongly are the unsubstantiated
>>> aspersions and generalized slurs that I’ve now received on more than
>>> one occasion from David – of dishonesty, of political association,
>>> and now of ‘social placement’ (which I take to be a reference to
>>> class prejudice) – wrapped in lofty rhetoric, never quite fully
>>> articulated and therefore never easy to confront. These really seem
>>> to me one of the banes of internet literary life, and I’m curious as
>>> to whether the list thinks this is ok, or even has some kind of
>>> procedure to deter it. Why I think it should be discouraged is that
>>> it leads almost inevitably to this kind of exchange which is futile
>>> and irritating for others to witness, and decidedly unpleasant to
>>> engage in.
>>>
>>> In this instance, I think David is quite entitled to attack
>>> anything I’ve actually written or argued but should not be at
>>> liberty to air these kind of vague but damaging imputations - based
>>> now, for the second time, on a general and oracular view of my
>>> character as revealed to him by my posts. We all, I’m sure, make
>>> assumptions about each other, but for a discussion to proceed in any
>>> interesting way responses have to be anchored not in these
>>> assumptions but in what has actually been said. If I am alone in
>>> believing this, then this list is obviously not the place for me to
>>> be. (Perhaps it never was, but I’ve found quite a few of the
>>> discussions informative and stimulating, and I have been treated
>>> here, for the most part, with respect and generosity by poets who
>>> may well not approve of my aesthetics or, for that matter, my
>>> work.)
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Anthony Barnett
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Mouldering in my grave
>>>>
>>>> Please stop this. The list is not the place for this. In private
>>>> please. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Anthony Barnett
>>>> http://www.abar.net
>>>>
Tilla Brading
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