Professors do get their books translated into different languages and the name of the authors have never been changed as a result. Before a book is published, an author often gets copy-editing services from the publisher. Then how can these professors expect the students not to do the same?
What I mean is that universities need to make sure they do not recruit students who cannot write English in the first place and then find ways to punish them for not being able to achieve the language standard. Or, if they still want to recruit students whose English is not good enough, it should be the university's responsibility to offer the needed support. This is like teaching economics which will require a certain level of math. Either you do not recruit students who do not know math, or if you do recruit, you will have to offer a math course so that they can catch up.
-----Original Message-----
From: Social-Policy is run by SPA for all social policy specialists [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jean-Paul Revauger
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PhD service
Language is politics. The English speaking world enjoys a huge advantage. Ability to express oneself efficently in the language publishers expect and the community understands gives one a singificant headstart. Multilingualism was a nice idea which the Council of Europe tried to promote , a number of brave nations try to defend their national languages, but what can you do against Julius Caesar and Cicero combined? Basic Global English is ineffective and ugly. Reaching very satisfactory standards is essential for foreign students, whatever their subject. Systematic translation is problematic, and close to cheating, in some ways.
In Britain, sloppy English and low expectations from academia only exclude those students without a "proper" cultural - i.e. family background. Culture is something anybody can learn, but only if it is taught.
Best wishes, JP Révauger
Le 29/10/2012 12:50, Bingqin Li a écrit :
> Not as black and white as it seems.... What if the student writes in his/her native language first and asks a native speaker to translate it? That is what academic people do all the time, right?
>
> I think this is not about whether a student should get help with their language when they write essays, it is about what kind of support a student should get or a university should promise if it wants to recruit students whose English is not the first language.
>
> Having attended a conference recently by European scholars trying to speak Chinese, I noticed that how much their good ideas got lost when they tried to speak in Chinese directly. But they are trying very hard, twice harder than native Chinese speakers. Their efforts should be appreciated. If they can get a bit of help to correct some grammar mistakes in their slides or papers, why not?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Social-Policy is run by SPA for all social policy specialists
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Socialist Health
> Association
> Sent: 29 October 2012 11:01
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: PhD service
>
> But language is something where its quite legitimate for someone to help you. I once helped my friend with a thesis on microbiology - a subject about which I know nothing - because her English is a bit uncertain. Did I do wrong?
>
> On 29/10/12 09:17, CRAIG G. wrote:
>> I am strongly of the view that a good grasp of whatever language is required is essential. There are closely related words which however have different meanings and can therefore confuse or mislead the reader. One example I came across recently was 'effect' and 'affect'.
>> Gary Craig
>>
>> Please reply to the email address from which this message comes.
>>
>> Gary Craig BSc DipEd Dip CW PhD AcSS FRSA Professor of Community
>> Development and Social Justice School of Applied Social Sciences
>> Durham University Elvet Riverside II New Elvet Durham
>> DH1 3JT
>> 44 00 (0)191 334 2232
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Latest reports:
>> Community capacity building (2010) eds. with A Noya& E. Clarence,
>> OECD. www.oecd.org/publications Mapping rapidly changing ethnic minority populations (2010) with others, Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
>> Marginalised and excluded: York's Traveller Community (2010) with
>> Marie Neale and Mick Wilkinson, York Travellers Trust
>> www.ytt.worldbreak.com Forced labour and the Gangmaster's Licensing Authority (2010) with Mick Wilkinson and Aline Gaus, Hull: WISE www.hull.ac.uk/WISE Child Slavery Now Gary Craig (ed) (2010) Policy Press.
>> 'Capacity building in other policy contexts' (2010) in S. Kenny and M Clarke (eds.), Challenging capacity buuilding, Palgrave.
>> The community development reader, (2011) Eds. with M.Mayo, K. Popple, M. Shaw and M. Taylor, Policy Press.
>> 'Forward to the past, can the UK Black and ethnic minority third
>> sector survive?', (2011) Gary Craig, Voluntary Sector Review, Vol. 2, No.2 Understanding 'race' and ethnicity, (2012) (ed. with others), Policy Press.
>> The experience of forced labour (2012) (with others), Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Social-Policy is run by SPA for all social policy specialists
>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Jean-Paul Revauger
>> [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 29 October 2012 08:55
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: PhD service
>>
>> Wouldn't it be a good idea to make sure our students can write
>> tolerable English - or whatever national langage- without the help of
>> rewriters, editors... or spell checks. Toleration of poor standards
>> reinforces inequalities.
>> Best wishes, Jean paul Révauger (France, naturally)
>>
>> Le 29/10/2012 08:48, Socialist Health Association a écrit :
>>> The only thing I am qualified to do is to teach English. It always
>>> seemed to me a very bad thing that people were penalised in every
>>> other discipline because their English was poor. You shouldn't lose
>>> marks in geography because you can't distinguish between there,
>>> their and they're or because your use of full stops is uncertain.
>>>
>>> On 29/10/12 06:41, Dave Sayers wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I spent a couple of years doing copy-editing type freelance work
>>>> (or, *ahem*, un-employed and scraping by), which included some MA
>>>> and PhD work, so I struggle to pour water on this sort of thing,
>>>> BUT... I think people should be cautious about recommending (as
>>>> faculty) or using (as PhD
>>>> students) such services. In particular, it's important to make very
>>>> sure about your own institution's policy on the use of professional
>>>> editors. I seem to recall that Canadian universities (or maybe it
>>>> was Australian...) are much keener than UK universities, many of
>>>> which completely prohibit such things. One of my current two jobs
>>>> is a part-time supervisory post for Laureate Online Education (in
>>>> association with Liverpool University), and they/we are very
>>>> strongly against the use of any editors at all. (As a freelancer, I
>>>> was always careful about this because I hoped to get back into
>>>> academia and didn't want this sort of thing coming back to bite
>>>> me!)
>>>>
>>>> And of course it is very obvious if your student's work suddenly
>>>> leaps up in quality and readability etc. This isn't the sort of
>>>> thing that goes unnoticed. There's also the possibility that
>>>> certain freelance editors (and I'm not casting any aspersions on
>>>> the one being advertised here) plagiarise either their own previous
>>>> editing work, or other published research
>>>> -- both of which would show up
>>>> quickly in TurnItIn, or in other automatic plagiarism-checking software.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Dave Sayers
>>>> Honorary Research Fellow, Arts& Humanities, Swansea University
>>>> and Visiting Lecturer (2012-2013), Dept English, Ã...bo Akademi
>>>> University [log in to unmask]
>>>> http://swansea.academia.edu/DaveSayers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 06:07:54 +0000
>>>>> From: Tina Haux<[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Subject: PhD service
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been asked to forward the following email:
>>>>>
>>>>> Article for submission/services:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm writing to you in your capacity as secretary of the UK Social
>>>>> Policy Association.
>>>>>
>>>>> I run a small communications company and I have written a short
>>>>> article about the PhD Service we offer that I'm hoping will be of
>>>>> interest to SPA members.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm including a direct link that I hope you will use as you see fit.
>>>>> And please let me know if I can supply any additional information
>>>>> and if you prefer the article in a different format.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.orilingo.com/1/post/2012/10/how-a-professional-phd-serv
>>>>> i
>>>>> ce-can-help-you.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anett
>>>>>
>> --
>> Jean Paul Révauger
>> FRE Europe Européanité Européanisation Université de Bordeaux III.
> --
> Martin Rathfelder
> Director
> Socialist Health Association
> 22 Blair Road
> Manchester
> M16 8NS
> 0161 286 1926
> www.sochealth.co.uk
> https://www.facebook.com/Socialist.Health
> @SocialistHealth
>
> If you do not wish to be on our mailing list please let us know and we
> will remove you
>
> Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
> communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer
>
>
--
Jean Paul Révauger
FRE Europe Européanité Européanisation
Université de Bordeaux III.
Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer
|