My understanding of the guidelines is that it does specifically state
that there must be evidence of the impact beyond the 'act of
engagement itself'. They also state that the engagement should be at
least based upon the research detailed in the PI's submission (which
is easier said than done in some of the more esoteric fundamental
sciences), which means there are limits to the degree some areas could
engage in this manner. I'd guess many ares of science would be looking
for indirect impact in the form of an application or improvement to
tech/meds/conservation that benefits culture/people/environments,
rather than public engagement.
But as we are about public engagement here, REF state that they;re
looking for the types of audiences addressed, which means *asking*
them who they are (never a bad thing). They looking for secondary
coverage/reporting/blogging of/by the attendees, or directly
contacting the attendees. A well designed feedback form, inviting
contact and discussion with the audience should inform future
engagement (because we're assuming someone did more than give a single
talk here!); also, a good measure is whether the interaction going to
become an ongoing series/be repeated - indeed, was it invited to be by
the audience.
Of course each of the panels details it differently, and dutifully
sci/med have left it particularly nebulous; but I think they're on to
the fact that we need more than just numbers.
With regards what Hilary says, I think it is crucial that *some* areas
do build upon feedback, because in many ways we should be addressing
what the public actually wants as much as leading the public in what
it *could* want/aspire/idealise. We could argue the toss with regards
how or what the public wants us to do in kinase research, pure maths
or particle physics, but certainly I know the Institute for Research
and Innovation in Social Services in Glasgow has accused university
sociologists of failing to discuss their intended research with the
communities who they would presume to study, and thus not providing
the sort of 'service' or information sorely wanted/needed by the
community.
This still leaves a somewhat nebulous task of following up on what the
'impact' was re: Richard's original question. Most universities should
have a REF research communications team in place to assist in the
impact case studies, to assist with chasing up evidence - bearing in
mind that the period we're talking about for impact my precede
blogging, or internet records, so there could be some old fashioned
hunting and interviewing involved. It's not going to be easy for many,
and the value of impact will only increase in the next REF.
Jim
@jacaryl
On 5 October 2012 16:29, Sophia Collins <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I think Hilary is spot on here. There's been a lot of talk/arguing/complaining about the REF - seemingly for about the last two years - but this worrying aspect has rarely been mentioned.
>
> I kind of thought we'd got to the point where people accepted that successful public engagement has to be a two-way conversation. But the way the REF is defining impact cuts it back down to 'talking at the public' and seems to miss out listening altogether. Which seems like the opposite of joined up thinking to me.
>
> Sophia
>
> --
> Sophia Collins
> 0797 077 3791
> @sophiacol
>
> Personal website: http://sophiacollins.wordpress.com/
> Tales from the River: http://talesfromtheriver.wordpress.com
>
> On 5 October 2012 14:13, Sutcliffe Hilary <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> We'll have to disagree on that one then Michael.
>>
>> Research will surely have a more positive impact on society if it engages with society and is in fact an embedded part of society instead of an 'ivory tower'. That's what a lot of the public engagement work is about. So therefore the positive impact of research on society could be said to include how well it responds to society. I know the whole faster horse thing, not saying we have to chase middle england's every whim etc etc. But a rich interaction is an impact in its own right?
>>
>> I wouldn't consider it odd at all, though agree that 'how many' is a daft concept. But certainly how researchers in many areas have considered the impacts of their work etc is a fundamental part of the responsible research and innovation debate. Shouldn't be separated really in my view.
>>
>> Hilary
>>
>>
>> Hilary Sutcliffe
>> Director
>> MATTER
>> 7 Adam Street
>> London WC2H 6AA
>> Tel: +44 (0)208 693 0053
>> Mob: 07799 625064
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/hilarysutcliffe
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> Blog: http://www.matterforall.org/blog/
>> Website: www.matterforall.org
>> skype: hilary.sutcliffe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Oct 2012, at 13:48, Michael Kenward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> The idea of REF is to show the impact of research on society, not the impact of society on research. That is something else.
>>
>> Indeed, I would think it rather odd if you judged the quality of a researcher’s output on the basis of how many people they consulted before doing the work.
>>
>> MK
>>
>>
>> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sutcliffe Hilary
>> Sent: 2012-October-05 09:54
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] The impact of impact
>>
>> I'm perhaps more interested in how the views of the engagement and the public influenced and impacted on the scientist and their work. Doesn't the REF count that? Very odd if not.
>>
>> Also I think 'transparency' is an issue for University science as well as business science and if one is transparent about, say, testing methodologies etc etc then it doesn't matter that no-one even looks at that bit of your website and the public is not influenced, it is the principle of openness and transparency about success and failures which is important. Not sure if the REF looks at that either.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Hilary
>>
>>
>>
>> Hilary Sutcliffe
>> Director
>> MATTER
>> 7 Adam Street
>> London WC2H 6AA
>> Tel: +44 (0)208 693 0053
>> Mob: 07799 625064
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/hilarysutcliffe
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> Blog: http://www.matterforall.org/blog/
>> Website: www.matterforall.org
>> skype: hilary.sutcliffe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Oct 2012, at 09:39, richard wiseman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> As some of you may know, all UK academics will soon be evaluated in a government exercise known as the REF. A key of the exercise involves assessing the 'impact' of their research, and this includes public understanding and engagement projects.
>>
>> However, it is vital that all submitted impacts (including giving a talk, helping with an exhibition, appearing on the media, or writing a popular book) must be accompanied by documented evidence that the work has directly informed the public or changed their attitudes/beliefs.
>>
>> Has anyone in the PUS community been dealing with this issue (e.g., what evidence is and isn't acceptable, how that evidence is collected)?
>>
>> One important implication is that academics will be v reluctant to be involved in future PUS work unless it explicitly results in this kind of evidence.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Richard Wiseman
>> Psychology Department
>> University of Hertfordshire
>>
>> Tel: 077 909 05219
>> Twitter: @richardwiseman
>> www.richardwiseman.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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