Just to reply to one point of Andrews points:

"When so much of the hiring process is based on REF criteria, though, it seems like departments have their hands tied. I could be wrong (and please correct me if so), but my understanding is that for most posts there's actually a structural block in place at the HR stage that will automatically disqualify applicants who don't satisfy certain publication requirements"

I think in most Universities the appointment of staff still rests with the Department or College, rather than HR. HR tend to simply oversee the process and confirm it is fair, and we have found at Leicester that a department can assert its right to appoint someone with fewer publications if we argue that they are a better 'fit' with existing staff (however that is defined). In other words, existing staff have more power to challenge who gets appointed than we might realise and we should be putting this to more use.

In a very short space of time the expectations of what a early career staff member might have produced has dramatically increased, and yet, as you say, we have not changed the system by which we produce (or supervise) PhD students. My students are very rarely coming out with 4 REF publications because they need to (a) complete a PhD, (b) stay relatively sane, and (c) people do not start out by writing 4* publications, it is a process. REF also allows the career stage to be considered. In other words, academics are not opening up the system themselves, but simply employing people with a long CV. We are putting the blocks in ourselves, not HR, and toeing the REF line in a way that it does not demand. It is our own obsession with REF which needs to be challenged more from the top.

Jenny
-------------------------------
Dr Jenny Pickerill

Reader in Environmental Geography
Department of Geography
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH
UK

work: +44 (0)116 252 3836
fax: +44 (0)116 252 3854
email: [log in to unmask]
web: www.jennypickerill.info
Green Building blog: http://naturalbuild.wordpress.com/
Lammas low impact settlement project: www.lammas.org.uk
Editor for Social Movement Studies: http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/14742837.asp
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From: A forum for critical and radical geographers [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andrew Wilbur [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 23 July 2012 19:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Academics & UK job centres

I'm glad this topic came up, and that efforts are being made to inject some flexibility into an incresingly rigid and punitive system, though like the others I'm not wildly optimistic about the possibility of achieving even mild reforms. As a journalist friend wrote to me a couple months ago:

'Just remember that the system is perpetually in a Kafkaesque state of chaos, benefits staff are all ridiculously stressed and in fear of their jobs being outsourced or scrapped, and the poor sods are probably being forced to work to unfeasible targets vis a vis getting people off benefits. That means that you're facing a toxic combination of ignorance and deviousness, i.e. they don't know how the system is supposed to work, and will also constantly deliberately err on the side of striking you off whenever they see the chance. They've probably been told to refuse every application where there could be even a hint of uncertainty, in the hope that a chunk of those people won't even bother to appeal. That's pretty much the situation that was described to me off the record by a staff member when I was on sickness benefit c.2001, and I can only assume it's 10x more like that now.'

That view pretty much concurs with my wife's recent experience at the Job Centre, where she was told (without the faintest trace of irony): 'The people who are most successful with us are the ones who will take anything we offer, so if you're willing to do that, then you know... the world's your oyster.'

Having said that, there was a special programme for artists (or 'creative economy entrepreneurs') some years ago that allowed claimants to receive benefits while pursuing grants, planning exhibitions, volunteering, etc. I don't think the financial rewards were any different to the standard Job Seeker's Allowance but it relieved the pressure associated with filling out your fornightly job hunting form – you could list things that were actually constructive in relation to your training and ambitions rather than pretending to set up interviews for door-to-door vacuum cleaner sales. Given the peculiarities of the academic job market, I'd like to think that a similar arrangement could be feasible for out-of-work academics, though I don't know if the artists' programme still exists, and all evidence points towards a full capitulation to a target-based system of just getting everyone in a job, no matter how ephemerally or pointlessly.

Personally, I'm in exactly the kind of position to be affected by these circumstances, though I'm unable to claim benefits as I'm not a UK citizen. I had my PhD viva in May and graduated in June. I've had a few interviews with no job offers yet, but am nonetheless working almost full-time for no pay. Between job applications, research proposals and journal articles I'm putting in about 30 hours of focused work per week, almost all in pursuit of simply getting a paid job. I know it's not a perpetual state of affairs and once the articles emerge from peer review purgatory my prospects will improve, but my situation certainly isn't unusual and at times it does feel hopeless. And fundamentally it is pretty absurd, especially considering the profits the journal publishers are making from this kind of labour. I think Jenny's suggestions are good ones, and I imagine there's a good uptake where those kinds of opportunities are available. When so much of the hiring process is based on REF criteria, though, it seems like departments have their hands tied. I could be wrong (and please correct me if so), but my understanding is that for most posts there's actually a structural block in place at the HR stage that will automatically disqualify applicants who don't satisfy certain publication requirements. While I can understand the basic functional logic behind this, it does leave a huge number of recently anointed PhDs in very difficult circumstances, and probably isn't all that desirable an outcome for departments that would like to retain their graduates.

There really does need to be some kind of official recognition that there's a widespread problem here, one that's being exacerbated by structures like the REF and JSA as they currently exist, and that the higher ed sector will continue to lose researchers if it's not addressed. Something like the Job Centre strategy would be a good start, at least in cushioning the post-PhD transition, though to be honest there are probably a lot of professions for which the one size fits all model of the JSA is equally awkward. Still, there's no harm in agitating for change. So on a  practical and less despondent note, I'd also like to suggest that the Euraxess research mobility website is utilised along with jobs.ac.uk:

http://ec.europa.eu/euraxess/index.cfm/jobs/index

Thanks and good luck.

Andrew
________________________________________
From: A forum for critical and radical geographers [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Daniel Allen [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 23 July 2012 17:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Academics & UK job centres

The job centre experience is terrible for anyone seeking work, whether they are academics are not. I would not wish it upon anyone.

The recommendations made are very interesting and would be helpful for some staff. I support them, although to be honest, I doubt it would make much difference.

Having been unemployed after completing my PhD and briefly after my Teaching Fellowship ended, I am of the opinion that academia needs a rethink and not job centres. PhD graduates need support from departments, journal articles must become accessible without charge, research grants need to become open to independent scholars, preconceptions about PhD graduates applying for academic jobs they were once overqualified for needs to change. PhD graduates unhappily sign on for £60 a week, I'm sure they would be much happier to be affiliated to a university where they can actually contribute. Why can't PhD graduates, apply for a second paid doctoral vacancy for example?

There is also, of course, the matter of REF. Let's face it anybody with a PhD can write a peer reviewed paper, that is of course what their doctoral training is for, to become REF returnable. However, seeing that the academic landcape is changing within the bleak economic climate, it would be useful for the recession generation of PhD graduates if broader research outlets are also recognised in this process.

Daniel (an independent scholar from the recession generation of PhD graduates)

Dr Daniel Allen
Mobile:  0777 167 1987
Website: http://www.drdanallen.com/
Earth Series Editor: http://earth-series.blogspot.com/
Columnist for Small Furry Pets magazine: http://www.smallfurrypets.co.uk/
New Book: 'Animal Obsessions. True Stories from a Pet-Loving Nation': http://www.facebook.com/AnimalObsessions

Affiliations: Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society. Affiliate Member of the IUCN SSC Otter Specialist Group. Founder of the Animal Geography Research Network




________________________________
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:02:00 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Academics & UK job centres
To: [log in to unmask]

I have to agree with Marc, the job centre does not care what type of job people get, simply that they are employed.

Having been on unemployment benefit myself I have every sympathy with the inflexible system and tiresome demands of training (I got sent on a 'how to use a computer' course, despite having a PhD in internet activism), however, I have mixed feelings about expecting better support for academics.

Of course getting into academia is pretty hard right now, especially with the growth of casual contracts, but could we do more to support ourselves/ each other? Collectively we could make more use of Honorary Visiting Fellow posts which provide library access and an institutional base from which to publish. I have used these to cover the times inbetween posts when I was actually working in cafes, but wanted it to look like I had a connected career path. Several Unis are happy to set these up, especially if you graduated from it. I am not suggesting that a Honorary post helps the actual problem of unemployment, but it might help smooth the early difficult steps into permanent posts.

What other ways could those of us in employment help? I think we could do more in supporting and talking through the challenges of getting that first permanent job, and some of the expectations of those we interview for such jobs that are perhaps not as obvious externally? I fear that once someone has a PhD they are left to sort out their career themselves, with very little guidance or help - could we do more?

Jenny
-------------------------------
Dr Jenny Pickerill

Reader in Environmental Geography
Department of Geography
University of Leicester
University Road
Leicester
LE1 7RH
UK

work: +44 (0)116 252 3836
fax: +44 (0)116 252 3854
email: [log in to unmask]
web: www.jennypickerill.info<http://www.jennypickerill.info/>
Green Building blog: http://naturalbuild.wordpress.com/
Lammas low impact settlement project: www.lammas.org.uk<http://www.lammas.org.uk/>
Editor for Social Movement Studies: http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/14742837.asp


________________________________
From: A forum for critical and radical geographers [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marc Welsh [maw] [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 23 July 2012 16:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Academics & UK job centres


Having been in the same boat (recent completion, 15 months on number of fixed term contracts, few months signed-on) thought chuck in few comments:



Time spent doing preparatory work to make one employable in this REF obsessed world (i.e. publications or training) is time spent not actively seeking work. If you even hint at time spent writing or training you will loose benefits for the simple reason it is a ‘benefit’ you are receiving, not a form of subsidy to facilitate knowledge creation and dissemination. In a similar vein any voluntary work you may undertake (e.g. article reviewing, editing or conference organising) takes you out of job hunting and if you try to include it in your bi-weekly ‘looking for work’ report



The grant proposal process these days is normally brokered through the Je-S institutional gatekeepers, so that whole ‘being based in a Department’ issue rears it’s ugly head, as it does for the journal article submission process.



Job centres are not supposed to know or care how the academic job application process works - they are only supposed to get you off the books and into a job. They give you a fair amount of leeway for the first three months of doledum to be selective in what you apply for and won’t push things on to you, but you only get this time to if you have been in work for over a year – so sadly the time spent slogging away on the new improved 9 months teaching fellow won’t count.



Access to resources is key and I suspect in many cases University Departments are willing to help if asked, however, that is about flexibility in the context of a system that normally chops you off at the knees the instant you are off the University books and a net drain on resources.



I think the recommendation about jobs.ac.uk is useful. The other points I suspect will fall on deaf ears. From the perspective of universal benefits why should the system privilege someone who has been edjumacated to a PhD more than someone who has obtained an NVQ in Care for the Elderly in terms of time to apply for grants and develop research proposals and the resources to find a job (e.g. library access)? All they care about at the end of the day is one less statistic, not how the long term prospects and wellbeing of that statistic might be affected by the choices the .







The amazing thing is how few academics have a clue about the way the system operates these days and the various hurdles and deceptions one has to engage in to inveigle your way into the echelons of the academy. No wonder so many PhD graduates simply leave a career in academia.



From: A forum for critical and radical geographers [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Angela Last
Sent: 23 July 2012 11:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Academics & UK job centres



Dear all,



I am writing on behalf of myself and a number of academics who are working fixed-term contracts or have just finished their PhDs or postdocs in the UK. A few weeks ago, I wrote a letter to the Department For Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Work and Pensions to improve conditions for academic job seekers. While the UK job centre system can be critiqued for many things (and both job seekers and staff are suffering from it), I specifically addressed how the system hinders applications for jobs that are complex and potentially international/collaborative. My list of recommendations was first answered with a generic letter from some government service, but a second letter has led to a meeting at Streatham job centre (London) on 2 August 2012. I wanted to ask those of you who have had or are having similar experience with job centres to get in touch with me, so that points can added to the list. This may be an opportunity to make a small change.

 My recommendations (abbreviated here) were as follows:

 1) Inform job centre staff of the website jobs.ac.uk<http://jobs.ac.uk> . There does not seem to be any awareness of this site or other (overall, not specifically academic) specialist resources. Instead, academic job seekers are directed to sites of little use to them, such as linkedIn, Monster or other agencies.



2) Inform job centre staff how academic job applications work (research proposals, course proposals, research council grants, fellowships, postdocs etc) and the amount of work they require.

Currently, academic job seekers are being sanctioned if they work intensely on a few applications, rather than ‘send off CVs’ indiscriminately. Sometimes, they are given mandatory jobs such as volunteer work (Olympics!) or distributing leaflets, which drastically curb research time for applications. Many early career researchers have to drop out of the service and take on loans (or temporarily move abroad where they are given more specialist help). This privileges people who are better resourced. In addition, even if the required number of ‘job search activities’ have been undertaken, these are often not recognised as legitimate (see Point 4).



3) Consider providing appropriate resources. Most academic job seekers need to work on applications, which include detailed research or course proposals. Lack of access to university resources due to lack of institutional affiliation makes research for job applications very difficult. Especially academic library access is crucial. It would help considerably if unemployed academics could be given such access e.g. through a SCONUL (inter-library) card or access to electronic journals/databases.



4) Find an alternative to mandatory job search appointments. This does not include the two-weekly ‘signing on’ dates, but other mandatory appointments for ‘job search help’. These can be weekly or even daily, depending on the assessment of the case officer. As most academics jobs (or jobs for which people with academic training would be suitable) are not advertised in job centres, these appointments make no sense and interfere with research time (e.g. at libraries). At the same time, job centre staff are being punished if no jobs can be found through the system – they are forced to show that they gave you print outs of jobs from the data base etc. to meet targets. Most job centre staff also do not seem to know the exact rules of the system and give arbitrary sanctions.



If anyone has information in support of these recommendations or wishes to make additional points, please contact me by 2 August 2012. Of course, these sound a bit like band aid solutions for a larger set of issues, but maybe one thing can lead to another.



Best wishes,

Angela

--



Dr Angela Last

Associate Lecturer

MA Art & Science

Central Saint Martins

University of the Arts London

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

http://mutablematter.wordpress.com