Dear All,
Just to point out it may very much be the season of rumblings. We had the biggest cycle protest ever in Edinburgh on Saturday, and, given the size of the population of Scotland compared to that of England, a particularly impressive turnout of 3,000 people on all sorts of bikes. We're particularly looking to the Dutch and the Danish for ideas of our bicycle infrastructure. These are interesting times to be a cyclist, and there is a head of steam being built up north of the border, as well as south. Apologies, as one of the organisers, for blowing our horn...
What we'd really like to know about is some more of the history of the activism in Denmark and Netherlands, and any pointers for ourselves.
http://pedalonparliament.org/
best wishes
alan munro
On 2 May 2012, at 15:00, Tim Jones wrote:
> Dear All
>
> It appears we are in the 'Danish season' what with the ongoing rumblings on this newsgroup and BBC4 season of Danish drama The Killing, Borgen and now The Bridge!
>
> Peter, I'm afraid I cannot advise but whilst we are on dealing with the 'Danish question' could I also request information from the cognoscenti specifically on Aarhus. I have an MSc Spatial Planning/Urban Design (Danish) student that I am supervising at Oxford Brookes who is about to (potentially) embark on a cross cultural study of the Danish and British approach to cycle planning using Aarhus and Oxford as comparator case studies. Does anyone have any potential leads/contacts at Aarhus and/or knowledge of developments in terms of cycle policy and planning within that municipality?
>
> Thanks for your help in advance. Please reply off-line to [log in to unmask] (i.e. do not just hit reply as this goes to the whole group potentially extending the 'Danish season' beyond tolerance!)
>
> Best wishes
>
> Tim
>
> On 2 May 2012 14:34, Richard Mann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> John - would you hazard which gives the better pedestrian experience: Dutch chaos or Danish order?
>
> (It's interesting also to compare with the UK ultra-protective approach to ped crossings)
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:38 PM, John Meudell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> ....Oooh, and I forgot to mention speed and bike design.
>
> As I was burning into Copenhagen on my recumbent trike, on a grade separated
> cycle path in town, I got overtaken not only by other cyclists but also by a
> very attractive Danish girl on roller blades...... I couldn't believe the
> speeds we were doing adjacent to pedestrians on the footpath (which was only
> separated by a white line). This "competitiveness" was evident everywhere.
>
> Your comments about bike design are also interesting. In Denmark there
> seemed to be an awful lot of what we in Britain used to refer to (back in
> the 60's) as ladies drop handlebars...drop handle bars that are splayed
> outward at a sharp angle (I have no idea what the technical term for them
> are, nor why they were developed....but nowadays would be considered highly
> retro!)
>
> And I'm not entirely sure that I agree with you regarding the class aspect
> of cycle design and speed. On a weekend there you'll see many many cycle
> sporting clubs around, knocking on at a fair pace (I used to struggle to
> keep up with them). And the Dutch have a long tradition of competitive
> cycling). I've never noted much in the way of class segmentation...indeed
> the Dutch Prime Minster appeared on the BBC cycling to parliament to hand in
> his resignation the other day. But that might be my interpretation of
> working definitions of social class between the UK and the
> Netherlands...which I'd suggest are very different.
>
> So I think the fondness for the traditional dutch design has more to do with
> the pragmatic streak in the Dutch (oooh boy do I miss it!) which defines
> bike purchases....a utility bike is a utility bike, so it's configured that
> way (same thing applies to the fondness for terug trap remmen (back pedal
> brakes for uninitiated!) 'cos it's easier to carry a bag in your hand and
> brake with the pedals).
>
> My Dutch bike dates back to the early post-war years when most of the
> transport, including bikes, had been commandeered and exported. Once the
> war was over and food production and distribution re-started one of the
> major imperatives would have been to re-build transport. Bicycles would
> have been the quickest and cheapest form of transport to get the country
> back moving and were probably built in huge numbers to pre-war designs.
>
> Considering the design of my own bike may offer some clues, though the bike
> itself is a bit of an enigma. I took it to the museum in Nijmegen however
> all they could tell me was that it was a 1938 Batavus design, but the frame
> number didn't conform to that companies frame number (or any other bike
> company). Instead they suggested it was more likely to be the asset number
> for a company owned bike. I am speculating but my guess is that, in
> addition to bike companies production, kits of parts may have been exported
> to local workshops as a means to increase production (there some other clues
> in the materials that were used to construct this particular bike) and may
> not have been issued with a frame number. And the bike found its way onto a
> company register.
>
> I often wonder how the Dutch transport system was rebuilt after the war and
> whether the influences of this period may have contributed to the longevity
> of the sit-up-and-beg style of cycle.
>
> Beste wensen
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Oosterhuis Harry
> (HISTORY)
> Sent: 02 May 2012 11:04
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: I'm visiting Denmark
>
> Dear John,
>
> What is, in your view, the fundamental difference between the Danish and
> Dutch bicycle infrastructure (and therefore perhaps also cycle policies and
> national cycling cultures)? One of the latest developments in Dutch bicycle
> policies concerns the construction of 'cycle-highways' in order to promote
> long-distance commuting and increasing cycling speeds, but I agree that the
> speeds of many Dutch cyclists is relatively low. For the average Dutchman,
> cycling is not a competitive sport ('hot and sweaty'), but just an easy way
> to get around. Probably the low speed has also to do with the particular
> history of bicycling in the Netherlands: the national image of the bicycle
> has been framed in terms of middle-class respectability and democracy: every
> citizen (upper and lower class, young and old, men and women) should be able
> to cycle. The typical Dutch bicycle (solid, black, chain-guard, dress-guard
> etc. and putting the rider in an upright position) mirrors this image.
>
> Best,
>
> Harry
>
>
> ___________________________________
> Dr. Harry Oosterhuis
> Department of History
> Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
> Maastricht University
> PO Box 616/Grote Gracht 90-92
> 6200 MD Maastricht
> T 00-31-(0)43-3883262
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.fdcw.unimaas.nl/staff/oosterhuis
> http://www.fasos-research.nl/sts/cyclinghistory
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Meudell
> Sent: woensdag 2 mei 2012 11:34
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: I'm visiting Denmark
>
> Peter
>
> You might want to try a bit of island hopping and check out the convenience
> of cycle and pedestrian priorities on the ferries. Although it's many years
> since I cycled around Denmark I was struck by the fundamental difference
> underlying Danish and Dutch approaches to cycling provision.
>
> And likewise the difference in typical cycling speeds....the Danish seem so
> much more competitive!
>
> Cheers
>
> John Meudell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter R.H. Wood
> Sent: 01 May 2012 21:38
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: I'm visiting Denmark
>
> Hello, I'm going on an extended trip to Denmark tomorrow evening.
>
> Can anyone suggest cycling things to do, and people to meet?
>
> Currently I'm in Copenhagen from the 3rd to the 7th, University of Aalborg
> mobilities course 8th-11th, then no plans until my flight from Copenhagen on
> the evening of the 14th.
>
> Is there anyone on the list that lives in Denmark and wants to meet up for a
> coffee, or can suggest interesting cycling things that I might want to
> see/video/photograph? I'm researching how cycling fits into urban lives in
> Inner London, so that'd be anything interesting really, from notable pieces
> of infrastructure, interesting examples of Danish cycling culture or just
> any notable bloggers/activists/campaigners that might want to meet up for an
> informal chat.
>
> (Interesting non-cycling recommendations also welcome)
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
> --
> Research Fellow
> Oxford Institute for Sustainable Development
> & Department of Planning
> Faculty of Technology Design and Environment
> Oxford Brookes University
> Gipsy Lane Campus
> Oxford OX3 0BP
> Tel +44 (0)1865 483436
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.brookes.ac.uk/about/faculties/tde
>
> Connect with Brookes:
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>
>
> EPSRC Understanding Walking and Cycling summary findings now available for download:
> http://radar.brookes.ac.uk/radar/items/17bb3ed2-1209-b3e9-5357-614f329af72e/1/
>
> I support @thetimes Cities fit for cycling campaign and their eight point manifesto http://thetim.es/cyclesafety #cyclesafe
>
> Quote: "“A society which measures man’s [sic] worth in terms of volume of publications accumulated is no less sick than one which measures his worth in terms of dollars amassed” (Stea 1969:1)."
>
> Stea D (1969) Positions, purposes, pragmatics: A journal of radical geography. Antipode 1(1):1–2
>
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