Greetings Anthony,
I am saddened to hear you characterize my input as criticism of history,
for that is not my intent.

While it is true that Medieval and Renaissance astrologers in the
Northern Hemisphere found an analogue between their seasons and the
triplicities of the zodiac that analogue is broken for the Southern
Hemisphere, and not only for the Southern Hemisphere, but also for any
place that does not share the same climatic variations of season with
those of the astrologers you mention.

Moreover, we are not the inheritors of only the Western Magical
Tradition, but also those of the traditions of the rest of the world, of
which the Medieval and Renaissance astrologers where almost completely
ignorant. Shall we choose only one tradition as the basis for forming
our understanding of magical practice and understanding? If we do choose
one tradition, why shall it be the Greek? Why shall we not use as our
guide the ancient Egyptian conceptions? Or those of Chaos magic?


Regards,

Morgan Leigh
PhD Candidate
School of Sociology and Social Work
University of Tasmania

On 18/05/2012 2:48 PM, Anthony H. wrote:
> Morgan,
>
> Khem has kindly provided the historical methodologies of astrological
> practices of Western esoterica. I am simply wondering why there is a
> bother criticizing history and its incapacity to conform with modernity
> when it can be used for a more fruitful integration with current ideas,
> such as the one Khem offered in understanding that the Medieval and
> Renaissance astrologers found quite a correspondence between the four
> elements, the four seasons, and the four triplicities of the zodiac. The
> system is quite elegantly integrated, and I wonder why we are so apt to
> discard these methods when they have such a rich dialogue of some of
> humanity's greatest thinkers attached to them.
>
> I admit to being baffled.
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Morgan Leigh <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Greetings Anthony,
> You seem to be saying that the practice of present day practitioners has
> no place in this academic discussion. I hope this is not so. This
> question actually centres on present day practitioners and how they do
> what they do.
>
> Regards,
>
> Morgan Leigh
> PhD Candidate
> School of Sociology and Social Work
> University of Tasmania
>
> On 18/05/2012 2:18 PM, Anthony H. wrote:
> > Cutting through the business of personal practice and speaking from a
> > wholly academic standpoint concerned with the philosophies that
> informed
> > the bodies of correspondences between the triplicities of the zodiac,
> > the elements, the seasons, etc. and the historical usages of
> > astrological methods in magical practices and other concerns (farming,
> > doctoring, etc.), Khem's explanations are highly informative and
> germane
> > to any scholarly inquiry into astrology.
> >
> > It is of the utmost importance to understand that, while modern
> practice
> > has amalgamated various philosophies and ideas together into
> sometimes a
> > nigh indiscernible mess, there is a well-documented and
> well-established
> > line of thought leading from ancient Greek philosophy to
> astrology, and
> > from there to magical practice. That line is little disputed, and
> how it
> > is used in modernity simply does not alter how it *was* used, and that
> > is what is relevant to this academic discussion.
> >
> > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Khem Caigan <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> > On 5/16/2012 @ 10:53 PM, Morgan Leigh doth schreibble :
> >
> >
> > Indeed, but if we were to follow the Stocis we should have
> to move
> > clockwise always and label the movement as being from Fire
> to Air to
> > Water to Earth, which does not fit with the astrological model
> > we have.
> >
> >
> > This does not follow, Morgan - it is all about what
> > practitioners observe with regard to their /local
> > horizon/ - one's local horizon is the "privileged
> > frame".
> >
> > Stoics were cognizant of the fact that /appearances/
> > made for diversity of observation - in the case of the
> > observer on the ground, it is simply /pragmatic/ to
> > proceed from personal experience. Even contemporary
> > astronomers still speak of 'sunrise' and 'sunset',
> > despite the fact that they 'know' that the Earth
> > rotates.
> >
> > (The Stoics also broke with Aristotle in making no
> > distinction between sublunar and celestial physics/
> > processes, by-the-way.)
> >
> > As I stated previously, it is primarily the Four Seasons
> >
> > and *not* the Signs of the Zodiac that determine the
> > Assignments of the Four Elements to the Four Directions
> > of the Compass.
> >
> > The Spring of the Year is attributed to Air in both
> > Hemispheres, even though the Spring of the Southern
> > Hemisphere occurs during the Autumn of the Northern
> > Hemisphere.
> >
> > Likewise, the Autumn of the Year is attributed to
> > Earth in both Hemispheres, although the Autumn of
> > the Southern Hemisphere occurs during the Spring of
> > the North.
> >
> > A practitioner facing North in the Southern Hemisphere
> > throughout the Course of a Day will witness the Sun
> > rising in the East at their right hand, and moving in
> > a /counter-clockwise/ direction as it sweeps up to Noon
> > in the North and then down to the West at their left
> > hand.
> >
> > This gives the Cycle Air - Fire - Earth - Water, and
> > not (as you state above) "Fire to Air to Water to Earth".
> >
> > Take another look at the Astral Rebis (which is drawn
> > from the perspective of a practitioner in the Northern
> > Hemisphere):
> >
> > *Astral Rebis*
> > http://tinyurl.com/yjrkbgb
> >
> > Beginning in the upper right hand corner, and proceeding
> > clockwise, we have the sequence Air(Sanguine) - Fire(Choleric)
> > - Earth(Melancholic) - Water(Phlegmatic).
> >
> > Which is exactly what we find in the Southern Hemisphere.
> >
> > The zero point for the Vernal Equinox in the Southern
> > Hemisphere is in the Sign of Libra, not Aries.
> >
> > Coincidentally, Kabbalists associate the Autumnal Equinox
> > in the Sign of Libra with the creation of Adam, and
> > Tishrei is the first month of the Jewish year ( "This
> > month shall be unto you the beginning of months; it shall
> > be the first month of the year to you." ~ Exodus 12:2 ).
> >
> > And I think it is well-known that the ancient Celts
> > associated the festival of Samhain with the New Year.
> >
> > Twilight times (dawn and dusk) often mirror syzygynous
> > events and situations.
> >
> > Many of the Stoics were adept astronomers / astrologers:
> > Manilius and Aratus immediately come to mind. And they
> > were quite familiar with all of the asterisms of the
> > Southern Hemisphere, I might add - see:
> >
> > *Manilius and Aratus: Two Stoic Poets on Stars*
> > by Josephe-Henriette Abry (.PDF)
> > @Leeds.ac.uk <http://Leeds.ac.uk> <http://leeds.ac.uk/>
> > http://tinyurl.com/7gvowqe
> >
> > See also:
> >
> > *Julius Firmicus Maternus: Profile of a Roman (Stoic) Astrologer*
> > by David McCann
> > @SkyScript.co.uk <http://SkyScript.co.uk>
> <http://skyscript.co.uk/>
> > http://tinyurl.com/8ye7xow
> >
> > *Ancient Astrology Theory and Practice*
> > by Firmicus Maternus (.PDF)
> > <transl. by Jean Rhys Bram>
> > @Scribd.com
> > http://tinyurl.com/cunmmgp
> >
> > *Touches of Sweet Harmony: Pythagorean Cosmology
> > and Renaissance Poetics*
> > by Simeon Kahn Heninger, 1974.
> >
> > *Divina Quaternitas: A Preliminary Study in the Method
> > and Application of Visual Exegesis*
> > by Anna C. Esmeijer, 1978, ISBN9023215672.
> >
> > *Hot Dry Men, Cold Wet Women: The Theory of Humors
> > in Western European Art, 1575-1700*
> > by Zirka Zaremba Filipczak, 1997.
> >
> >
> > Cors in Manu Domine,
> >
> >
> > ~ Khem Caigan
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > "Heat and Moisture are Active to Generation;
> > Cold and Dryness are Passive, in and to each thing;
> > Fire and Air, Active by Elementation;
> > Water and Earth, Passive to Generation."
> >
> > 'Of the Division of Chaos'
> > -Dr. Simon Forman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Magic is the highest most absolute and divine knowledge of natural
> > philosophy advanced in its works and wonderful operations by a right
> > understanding of the inward and occult vertue of things, so that true
> > agents being applied to proper patients, strange and admirable effects
> > will thereby be produced; whence magicians are profound and diligent
> > searchers into nature, they because of their skill know how to
> > anticipate an effect which to the vulgar shall seem a miracle."
> >
> > - /Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis/
> > <http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm>, Preface from
> > Harl. 6483
> > <http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm#preface>
> >
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Magic is the highest most absolute and divine knowledge of natural
> philosophy advanced in its works and wonderful operations by a right
> understanding of the inward and occult vertue of things, so that true
> agents being applied to proper patients, strange and admirable effects
> will thereby be produced; whence magicians are profound and diligent
> searchers into nature, they because of their skill know how to
> anticipate an effect which to the vulgar shall seem a miracle."
>
> - /Lemegeton Clavicula Salomonis/
> <http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm>, Preface from
> Harl. 6483
> <http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm#preface>
>

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