Taking responsibility for the comment
"Outreach is about giving .... Marketing is about taking"
Firstly I'd like to draw attention to my first message mentioning...
"Knowing the nature of this list I'd like to point out that clearly this
isn't a rigorous observation [and] is slightly tongue in cheek."
Secondly I'd wish to point out that there's no derision intended of all
marketers from me.
I do feel the funding model for marketing is different for outreach. I
wouldn't expect an organisation to have a marketing budget without some
sort of idea of business case, with a return on investment. In fact I'd
be worried how they spent money if they didn't.
Outreach, although I'd expect to have some sort of justification of
'impact', I'd argue doesn't necessarily equate to directly benefiting a
business case of the organisation, rather that the benefit of the
activity may be seen elsewhere in society.
I in no way said one was better than the other. Different people are
motivated by different things. I wondered if my tongue in cheek comments
would promote discussion as to whether people felt science communicators
were paid less than some marketers and this influenced their
motivations?
http://www.simplymarketingjobs.co.uk/ suggests average salary for
marketers of 30-40k. I'm not sure if the average for people doing
'outreach' is equal to that? As such, I proposed that it tended to
influence the priorities of the type of person doing the job.
Andrew
On Mon, 2012-03-12 at 15:49 +0000, Michael Kenward wrote:
> Really? Did you miss these bits?
>
> "One is disinterested communication - the other is propaganda"
>
> "Outreach is altruistic (involving the wider community in your institution)
> - marketing is cut-throat self-promotion."
>
> "Outreach is about giving .... Marketing is about taking"
>
> I agree with Jonathan on the "cynical attitudes" feeling: these certainly
> read like denigration to me. I agree, though, they are not "subtle
> denigration", more blatant kicking.
>
> I step in only to say that, while Hilary's definitions may be, probably are,
> accurate, they ignore the processes involved.
>
> As "W" says marketing and outreach are "different, requiring different
> skills". Similarly advertising and journalism deploy different skills. Some
> people manage to combine them effectively.
>
> Outreach people can use some marketing, and marketing people can be lost
> without the "outreachers".
>
> Indeed, you sum it up excellently yourself. "Marketing, outreach and
> journalism are all worthy trades, provided the tradespeople concerned act
> honestly and ethically."
>
> I especially like the use of the word "trade" to describe journalism. I
> wince when people describe it as a "profession". Then again, with all those
> degree courses and exams, not to mention the suggestions from the
> Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Mail about expelling miscreants from the ranks,
> perhaps I am getting a bit out of touch.
>
> MK
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Francis Sedgemore
> Sent: 2012-March-12 15:18
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Science Outreach vs Marketing
>
> >From scanning the many emails coming through today on this subject, I cannot
> see even a subtle denigration of marketing, let alone anyone explicitly or
> implicitly calling it 'grubby'. What is important, however, is to recognise
> the distinctions between marketing, public outreach. and, I would add,
> journalism. The border between marketing and outreach is sometimes blurred,
> but it nevertheless exists.
>
> Marketing, outreach and journalism are all worthy trades, provided the
> tradespeople concerned act honestly and ethically.
>
> No chilling necessary. There is a good, robust debate to be had here.
>
> Francis
>
> On 12 Mar 12, at 15:03, Sutcliffe Hilary wrote:
>
> > However, why on earth is there a hierarchy? Why are any of those things
> seen to be a 'grubby' thing to do or to be in?! If you work for a
> university, doing fascinating work, what's wrong with promoting that to
> support the ongoing reputation and success of the University? A University
> if a brand like a washing powder, and needs to have all those tools at its
> disposal to support it's ongoing success and build relationships with its
> stakeholders.
> >
> > If you are lying or subverting the truth in that communication or failing
> to be transparent about serious failings, then by all means to ashamed. But
> these are great things to do for a living, how else will we learn about the
> interesting research that people are doing with our tax money, or which
> course is best for us or our kids or where is a good place to get a job?
> >
> > I think we need to chill!
> >
> > Hilary
>
>
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