Leslie thank you for this and also for your clarification earlier which I used to explain the situation to Dutch midwives on our Journals facebook page. I hope you don't mind.
Some of you might be aware of this, but I thought I would pass it on anyway: The following support campaign is going on:
It is not usual in standard democratic legal systems for an appeal court to toughen the punishment. Ágnes will appeal for clemency to the Hungarian President. Do it as well; write your appeals for clemency for Ágnes Geréb to the address of the Office of the President of Hungary:
Köztársasági Elnöki Hivatal
1536 Budapest, Pf. 227
Express your support for Ágnes to this e-mail address: [log in to unmask]
It is also possible to send supporting letters and presents for Ágnes to the following address:
Ágnes Geréb, 1122 Budapest, Alma utca 1,,
Best wishes
Suze Jans
Midwife, researcher, editor
Amsterdam
The Netherlands
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive health research. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Page, Lesley
Verzonden: maandag 13 februari 2012 12:02
Aan: [log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: Re : RE: Agnes Gereb-Hungary
Dear Helena and dear Colleagues
I agree that the evidence is not listened to. In fact the extreme emotion around home birth is expressed as is the case in Hungary in forms of criminalization. There are similar problems in other parts of Europe. I understand there have been attempts in some States of the USA to make home birth illegal-am I right?
While having a large proportion of women being delivered of their babies by caesarean is just accepted. There is little logic in it.
A little while ago on this list I talked about the need to create a public understanding of science when translating our ( often quite complicated) evidence into understandable information. There is a need also to understand the psychology/sociology of power and control, particularly in regard to women's issues.
The imprisonment of Agnes in maximum security seems to me to express a need to stop her influence and communication with the people of Hungary. But the movement to support her and to give the Hungarian people a right to home birth is organised, powerful and intelligent, an effective social activism. While I was in Hungary I met with a number of senior ministers in government. They seemed to understand when I was explaining to them the importance of what I will call in shorthand the 'social' model of birth. Yet it seems the justice system in Hungary did not reflect this understanding.
We have seen over many years now how midwives have worked diligently to produce evidence, and use it in practice. My sense is that this will not be enough if we are to nudge a shift in the paradigm. We may need to consciously link our evidence and a logical interpretation of the evidence with a form of social and political activism, that includes influencing and using media including social media. Global linking and solidarity is crucial too.
This list is a good example of the use of social media and global connection and solidarity.
Best wishes
Lesley
Professor Lesley Page
Visiting Professor in Midwifery
mobile 07747708630
www.lesleypage.net
www.facebook.com/page4pres
________________________________________
From: Helena Lindgren [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 13 February 2012 07:53
To: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive health research.; Page, Lesley
Subject: SV: Re : RE: Agnes Gereb-Hungary
Dear Jenny and all
I also want to thank you for bringing this issue up. Research and clinical practice goes hand in hand and my experience from doing research on home births as my primary area of interest is that evidence is important but often not listened to or neglected in different ways.
Thank you for telling more about what is going on, I've been following what happened to Agnes from distance. The circumstances for midwives assisting home births as well for women who wish to give birth at home differs, we are currently collecting data from the Nordic region where we can also see this. I hope that there will be further collaboration for bringing evidence into practice on this subject.
Best wishes
Helena Lindgren
Midwife, associate professor
Sahlgrenska Academy
University of Gothenburg
Sweden
________________________________________
Frĺn: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive health research. [[log in to unmask]] för Page, Lesley [[log in to unmask]]
Skickat: den 12 februari 2012 21:07
Till: [log in to unmask]
Ämne: Re : RE: Agnes Gereb-Hungary
Dear Jenny
thank you for posting this-and I don't think we should worry about cross posting-it is an immensely important issue.
I visited Hungary just over a year ago at the invitation of the groups working to establish a right to home birth and the supporters of Agnes Gereb.
I wish to flesh out the situation a little. It is probably difficult for us to imagine the conditions of imprisonment for Agnes. It is inconceivable for us to imagine imprisonment in itself for a mortality at a home birth. But not only was Agnes imprisoned she was in maximum security with no phone, no mail and strictly restricted visiting.
Eventually she was released to house arrest. Agnes has suffered from the trauma of her imprisonment. There was some reluctance from some midwifery organisations to support her as there was dispute as to whether she was a registered midwife. I wish to clarify that she received education as an obstetrician and a midwife. Registration in Hungary was linked to employment, so possible for midwives working inside hospital but not those working in the community. For years i believe Agnes and her team provided the only possibility of attendance at home births in Hungary
Expert evidence in her trial was given by doctors with no experience in home birth, and who appear to have argued based on standards that are not evidence based.
The law in Hungary has been changed to allow home births but is highly restrictive.
I am waiting to hear how we can help further. I gather that Irene Walton has been very helpful in the protest over there. Sheila Kitzinger is involved in helping to coordinate a response from the UK.
I am aware that this is a research list-and would want to know from others if there is discomfort with posting this item. If so perhaps we should organise another 'venue'.
with my very best wishes
Lesley
Professor Lesley Page
Visiting Professor in Midwifery
mobile 07747708630
www.lesleypage.net<http://www.lesleypage.net/>
www.facebook.com/page4pres<http://www.facebook.com/page4pres>
________________________________
From: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive health research. [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of jenny hall [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 12 February 2012 19:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Agnes Gereb-Hungary
Apologies for cross posting- but feel this is important to share across the world as much as possible
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Free Birth in Hungary <[log in to unmask]<mailto:free%40birth.hu>>
Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 3:54 PM
Subject: Hungarian midwife, Ágnes Geréb sentenced to two years of
imprisonment
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:press-all%40szuleteshaz.hu>
Cc: [log in to unmask]<mailto:midwife_org%40szuleteshaz.hu>, [log in to unmask]<mailto:midwife_personal%40szuleteshaz.hu>,
[log in to unmask]<mailto:hungamb%40szuleteshaz.hu>
*The Court Applied a Double Standard:*
*the Verdict is More Severe in the Case of Ágnes Geréb*
* *
The Hungarian Court sentenced Ágnes Geréb to two years imprisonment, the 5
year ban from practicing her profession had been changed to 10 years. She
is the first Hungarian midwife-obstetrician ever to receive a sentence of
imprisonment.
The Justice for Ágnes Geréb Movement and the Hungarian Civil Liberties
Union was shocked by the verdict. According to their position *midwives
were not provided the chance of real self-defense* in front of the court.
Although several international experts, among them the previous head of the
World Health Organization (WHO) verified that Hungarian midwives did not
commit any mistakes, the court had not considered their opinions and
refused to hear them as witnesses.
*The court applies a double standard*: it judges hospital and out of
institution births differently. While hospital doctors are rarely in front
of a criminal court and their cases mostly end in suspension, in the case
of midwives criminal procedure starts immediately when there are any
complications.
In other countries issues of midwifery are discussed, investigated and
judged in front of a professional board of obstetricians and midwives, in
Hungary *it is exclusively the doctors who submit their opinion having no
experience with homebirth practices*.
By today's verdict the court maintains the criminalization of midwifery.
The HCLU and the Movement trusts in the positive judgment of the Hungarian
President in relation to the presidential pardon submitted in the case of
Ágnes Geréb and in that the President puts an end to the prosecution of
midwives.
After the announcement of the verdict Elizabeth Prochaska, British human
rights lawyer and Irene Walton, renowned British midwife-supervisor spoke
in support of Hungarian midwives at the demonstration taking place in front
of the court building.
*Justice for Ágnes Geréb Movement*
**
*For further information please contact:*
**
*Palma Fazakas: [log in to unmask]<mailto:pfazakas%40yahoo.com>*
*or Gabriella Nagy: [log in to unmask]<mailto:gabi73%40gmail.com>*
*+36-30-572-2506*
*or [log in to unmask]<mailto:free%40birth.hu>*
* *
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