Tilla: It's been a noun since a couple of centuries before it became a verb and is still common in medical usage and in certain kinds of criticism. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/affect.
Best,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
>From: tilla Brading <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Jan 21, 2012 7:00 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a “poetry establishment”
>
>at a tangent ....the effect of the verb affect as a noun is effective?
>Tilla
>
>On 16 Jan 2012, at 21:55, Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>> Jamie: You do know that I'm partly joking around? Affect tends to get
>> lost on email, largely because we're mostly strangers to each
>> other--the same notes sent between friends are usually understood.
>>
>> There are however real issues. It would be nice if the limited
>> resources in the kitty were spread around a bit better. It would also
>> be nice not to be treated as if invisible.
>>
>> Let me add that as a Jew my affection for pork knows no bounds. Add to
>> its native savor the lure of the exotic and the dangers of sin and
>> you'll get my drift.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Mark Weiss
>>> Sent: Jan 16, 2012 4:24 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a “poetry
>>> establishment”
>>>
>>> The trough could be the beggar's banquet, where there's only crumbs
>>> and everybody fights over them. Noblesse oblige doesn't apply.
>>>
>>> I was trying to be nice, but it's not always easy.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jamie McKendrick
>>>> Sent: Jan 16, 2012 2:58 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a “poetry
>>>> establishment”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A pretty miniscule trough, it has to be said. And "the pig", well,
>>>> it doesn't exactly re-inforce your earlier statement that "it's fine
>>>> to be a member of the mainstream."
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Mark Weiss
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a
>>>>> “poetry establishment”
>>>>>
>>>>> One does feel for the pig at the trough.
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: JAMIE MCK
>>>>>> Sent: Jan 16, 2012 7:51 AM
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a
>>>>>> “poetry establishment”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, but sometimes it must be hard for those mainstreamers to
>>>>>> occupy the political, the moral and the aesthetic low ground.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Sun, 15/1/12, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a
>>>>>>> “poetry establishment”
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, 15 January, 2012, 22:11
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine to be a member of the mainstream. But a mark of that
>>>>>>> membership is often the denial that a non-mainstream exists, and
>>>>>>> that's not fine. In the US, and I think in Britain and Ireland as
>>>>>>> well, you may have noticed that those in the non-mainstream
>>>>>>> generally recognize the names of the more important mainstream
>>>>>>> poets, have even read them, but the reverse is often not the
>>>>>>> case--I've had the experience of mentioning Oppen or Spicer and
>>>>>>> being greeted with blank stares, this from people
>>>>>>> university-certified as poets. Mention Randolph Healy or Peter
>>>>>>> Manson in mainstream circles and see what you get.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >From: Jamie McKendrick <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> >Sent: Jan 15, 2012 3:37 PM
>>>>>>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> >Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a
>>>>>>> “poetry establishment”
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >I found Michael’s foray into the Swedish detective genre
>>>>>>> entertaining, and
>>>>>>> >particularly liked his rheumy-eyed, old string-puller with a
>>>>>>> taste for
>>>>>>> >Persian classics. But from then on his account becomes
>>>>>>> unrecognizable. I
>>>>>>> >wouldn’t quarrel – who would? – with his first proposition (‘And
>>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>>> >cultural establishments exist’) but with the way he goes on to
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> >them: ‘like social classes....like the morale of sick
>>>>>>> institutions’. Once
>>>>>>> >these analogies are accepted – and, as Chris Hamilton Emery’s
>>>>>>> note suggests,
>>>>>>> >we all tend to think the establishment isn’t us – then ‘the
>>>>>>> outsider’
>>>>>>> >becomes the untainted figure whose perception is being
>>>>>>> suppressed and
>>>>>>> >‘silenced, if it can’t be dimmed’. Here we have the "mainstream"
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> >tottering Arab dictatorship.
>>>>>>> > The imagined ‘response to the outsider-( "but you don't
>>>>>>> understand, if
>>>>>>> >only you could meet... you would soon see... etc
>>>>>>> etc")...manifests the
>>>>>>> >effective though invisible self-defence of the establishment.’
>>>>>>> Hardly that
>>>>>>> >effective: such feeble pleading wouldn’t really be the manner of
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> >establishment that, as Mark argues, ‘holds most of the power’. I
>>>>>>> think by
>>>>>>> >this stage we’ve moved into Fantasyland - a fantasy which
>>>>>>> flatters the
>>>>>>> >integrity of the writer by assuming the lack of it among others
>>>>>>> writers
>>>>>>> >perceived to be more centrally placed.
>>>>>>> > Having been described on this list, without any apparent
>>>>>>> malice, as an
>>>>>>> >‘insider’ by someone whom I’d consider just as much an insider –
>>>>>>> or an
>>>>>>> >outsider – as myself, I’m inclined to agree with Chris’s sense
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> >indeterminacy and relativity of the term. At what point does
>>>>>>> somebody cease
>>>>>>> >to be an outsider? When they are published by a bigger press?
>>>>>>> When they
>>>>>>> >receive reviews from newspapers? When they write for the
>>>>>>> newspapers? When
>>>>>>> >they have an institutional teaching post? When they start
>>>>>>> writing reviews of
>>>>>>> >their nephew’s translations from the Persian?
>>>>>>> >Best,
>>>>>>> >Jamie
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> >From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> >Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 11:58 AM
>>>>>>> >Subject: Re: Chris Hamilton Emery on the elusive nature of a
>>>>>>> “poetry
>>>>>>> >establishment”
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >A familiar chapter in any Bildungsroman, when the hero begins to
>>>>>>> pierce the
>>>>>>> >outer layers of the establishment only to to find its centre
>>>>>>> constantly
>>>>>>> >shrinking and moving away, - to find that no-one including of
>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>> >himself is ever part of what once (from outside) seemed so
>>>>>>> monolithic and
>>>>>>> >solid. We chase it down, and after many Proustian penetrations
>>>>>>> eventually
>>>>>>> >reduce it to (Stieg Larsson-style) a single mild, old and
>>>>>>> terminally-ill
>>>>>>> >gentleman who views us through milky ice-blue eyes and murmurs
>>>>>>> that, these
>>>>>>> >days, he restricts himself to a few lines of Sir David Minnay's
>>>>>>> exquisite
>>>>>>> >translations from the Ancient Persian, but even so, this is
>>>>>>> really only
>>>>>>> >because Davie is a grand-nephew...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >And yet, cultural establishments exist (it is better not to
>>>>>>> think only of
>>>>>>> >poetry); they are much better exemplified by the Institution and
>>>>>>> by mass
>>>>>>> >structures than by the supposed individuals concerned: e.g. in
>>>>>>> this case
>>>>>>> >schools, colleges, newspapers, radio programmes, prizes,
>>>>>>> societies,
>>>>>>> >diplomatic exchanges, tourism hotspots... They exist and their
>>>>>>> patterns
>>>>>>> >persist, like social classes, in spite of all the individuals
>>>>>>> who decry
>>>>>>> >social class or prefer never to mention it. They persist like
>>>>>>> the morale of
>>>>>>> >sick institutions, exemplified by no single employee yet hugely
>>>>>>> resistant to
>>>>>>> >transformation. The outsider's view, as so often, is the
>>>>>>> perception that
>>>>>>> >must be silenced if it can't be dimmed. And the response to the
>>>>>>> >outsider -( "but you don't understand, if only you could meet...
>>>>>>> you would
>>>>>>> >soon see... etc etc")- itself manifests the effective though
>>>>>>> invisible
>>>>>>> >self-defence of the establishment.
>>>>>>>
>Tilla Brading
>Shiplap (Flat 2)
>43, Quay St
>Minehead,
>TA24 5UL
>
>01643 708160
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