Hi Anne,
The issue is that reporting tends to be when the horse has bolted.....so
aiming to try and educate that monitoring gives them a structure to
reporting and can be used in a systematic way for comparison to decide if it
s a training issue or a issue with the role or process. It gives clearer
data and can help pinpoint roles with issues. Its a safety net as audios are
and an opportunity to educate....I am getting there and resistance is
improving as they realise its a fair process. But change is always hard at
the best of times without a workforce that's very entrenched with little
turnover. They are like sheep and if one says 'why are we doing this?' the
rest follow. I have gone out and explained and seems they are getting it
now.... Also they get annoyed when they report issues to managers who then
either ignore them or don't communicate what they are doing.....So sent a
email to managers reminding them of their responsibilities under H & S. All
takes time.....
Thanks though because it's good to have different ideas and approaches. Its
easy to swim with the stream harder to swim against it....but more
interesting!!!
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 23 November 2011 16:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] and another one....refusing health
surveillance or health monitoring
Hello Dawn
I follow your rationale. However, what I say may be considered as being
contentious - the difference is that health surveillance such as audio etc
are "definites" for a statutory requirement, particularly as some people
have "tender ears". With regard to health surveillance for MSD. I was
assuming that you were thinking along the lines of this being conducted by
an OHN - if control's are in place with regard to both a safe system of work
and appropriate equipment then there shouldn't be a problem. However, I
acknowledge that one could argue that the same could be said for audio's -
its a final double check of the control measures (control measures should be
checked by undertaking noise risk assessment).
What should be in place is that anyone developing symptoms of a of work
related musculoskeletal injury should be reported.
Anne
On 22/11/2011 22:35, "Dawn" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Thanks Anne,
>
> My personal feeling is that with Resp and Derm and Audios they are sort of
> accepted as a historical thing and rightly so based on risk, However I
would
> argue that for my workplace we have little evidence of noise related ill
> health from all the screening and the same for Resp or derm so screening
is
> being pulled back and based on risk. However we have massive issues with
ill
> health/absence from MS issues and I would like to target this to reduce
the
> risks moving forward and be more proactive. The questionairre is part of a
> bigger package ie RTW,training and audit to see if twends in roles or
> workareas appear.
> The manual handling regs refer to monitoring and screening as part of a
> process for health hence this is my tool to encourage them. I think 211
> below covers it???
>
> Taken from Man Handline regs-
>
> Health surveillance
> 209 Health surveillance is putting into place systematic, regular and
> appropriate procedures to detect early signs of work-related ill health
> among employees exposed to certain health risks and acting on the results.
> 210 There is no duty in the Regulations to carry out health surveillance.
> Paragraph 41 of the Approved Code of Practice on the Management
Regulations
> requires appropriate health surveillance to be carried out when certain
> criteria are met. However, one of these is that there are valid techniques
> available to detect indications of the disease or condition. Currently no
> techniques are available that would reliably detect early indications of
ill
> health caused by manual handling and there is therefore no requirement for
> health surveillance to be carried out.
> 211 Nevertheless valuable information can be obtained from less precise
> measures such as reporting, monitoring and investigation of symptoms. This
> is known as 'health monitoring'. It is good practice to put in place
systems
> that allow individuals to make early reports of manual handling injuries
or
> back pain. Where appropriate these can be supplemented, for example by
> monitoring sickness absence records, lifestyle and health promotions and
> annual health checks. Further advice is in HSG61 Health surveillance at
> work.22
>
> Thanks for your help Anne.
>
> Dawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 22 November 2011 20:57
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] and another one....refusing health
> surveillance or health monitoring
>
>
> What an interesting one.
> The employer has a duty of care to the employee and the employee has to
> comply with health and safety strategies. The first question to ask is: Is
> their a requirement for health surveillance under legislation. With
respect
> to the COSHH Regs - there is a definite requirement for H/S under Reg 11
and
> medical surveillance under schedule 6 of the Regs. Non-compliance is
> therefore a breach of statutory requirements. Likewise audio under the
> Control of Noise at Work Regs.
>
> Their get-out clause is that there is no direct statutory requirement for
> health surveillance in relation to musculo-skeltal symptoms. However, the
> organisation could argue that such health surveillance is associated with
> the requirement for management to undertake risk assessments.
>
> Pity this hadn't come in yesterday. Diana Kloss is a visiting professor at
> London South Bank and she gave an evening lecture for our students and
their
> practice teacher. It would have been a good one to post to her.
>
> I will forward your email to Diana and see what she says. It may take a
> while as I know she is very busy this week. She is giving an after dinner
> speech for Allison Calne at the GMOHGroup dinner tomorrow so Allison may
be
> able to raise it at that event.
>
> Anne
> Anne Harriss
> Course Director
> LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY
>
>
>
>
> On 22/11/2011 18:28, "Dawn V" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I had a few men who are saying they will not complete a muscoloskeletal
>> monitoring form to try and proactively identify early issues. It has been
>> designed using the manual handling regs and is to run along side rehab
and
>> manual handling training. the aim is to consider any trends in issue or
> roles.
>>
>> So my question is how do you handle refusal to complete any health
>> surveillance or health monitoring?
>>
>> I see it as a management issue that we report if they don't complete and
> then
>> managers discuss this with them and if they don't complete it may be seen
> as a
>> disciplinary issue as they should support the employer in all Health and
>> Safety management programmes.
>>
>>
>> Thanks I know you will come back with great ideas...
>> Dawn
>>
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