I agree 100%. Very good for the whole Access movement to be seen to have this thoughtful approach to unusual situations.
Clive Sayer
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-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue Pellegrino
Sent: 15 November 2011 12:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: difficult decisions - difficult gradients
I like your thoughtful approach Vin, it isn't just about regs and standards
(as important of course that these are) but at core it is about people.
Information is crucial isn't it and enables visitors to make informed
decisions. Interesting posts/contributions.
Sue
Sue Pellegrino
Access Consultant
The Access Collaboration Ltd
44 King Street
Canterbury
Kent
CT1 2AJ
t- 01227 781451 Tel & Voice-mail
w- www.aclimited.net
e- [log in to unmask]
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-----Original Message-----
From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Vin West
Sent: 15 November 2011 12:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: difficult decisions - difficult gradients
thank you all so much - this has been really useful.
I don't for a moment underestimate the potential danger and fear inherent in
steep gradients and I have seen people tip on ramps and seen the fear in
their eyes as it happens, even if they laugh it off afterwards. And it is
not just the wheelchair user who may be at risk since the majority of
wheelchair users are older people and many may have spouses of the same age
who may also be the person pushing the chair, so the physical risks on steep
ramps of broken wrists, hips etc. are very real.
All that being said, if a genuine effort is being made to ensure that
everyone who wants to can visit the venue I feel bound to support it.
The venue by the way is Ty Hyll [The Ugly House] near Betws y Coed:
http://www.snowdonia-society.org.uk/index2.php?id=5 which is built into the
side of a hill but is an iconic building and should be available for anyone
to visit if at all possible.
thanks again to all,
Vin
Vin West
Secretary Arfon Access Group
Glyn Dwr
Llandwrog Uchaf
Caernarfon
LL54 7RA
01286 880761
[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
On 15 Nov 2011, at 11:36, Hunt, Alan wrote:
> Hi Vin
>
> I agree that your approach seems sensible given all the circumstances.
> I contacted the Artificial Limb and Appliance Service (ALAS) in Cardiff
> some time ago regarding maximum gradients and tipping points for
> wheelchair users and their advice to me was that anything steeper than
> 1:5 would lead to a wheelchair tipping backwards, but consideration
> needs to be given to additional loadings such as the carrying of
> shopping bags on the back of a wheelchair which could lead to tipping at
> shallower gradients. They suggested that the perception from a user
> point of view was often that gradients are steeper than they actually
> are so 1:10 will appear very steep.
>
> The guidance in BT Countryside For All (CCW, BT and FieldFare Trust)
> suggests that a maximum gradient of 1:10 with a max distance between
> landings of 9.5m is reasonable in "Rural/Working Landscapes".
>
> Alan Hunt
> Access Officer
> Pembrokeshire County Council
> County Hall
> Haverfordwest
> SA61 1TP
> Tel: 01437 775148
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Bracewell, Robert
> Sent: 15 November 2011 10:45
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: difficult decisions - difficult gradients
>
> Vin,
>
> Although it is steep and as a wheelchair user myself it would be a
> difficult range of gradients, I agree with Paul and feel that your
> approach may be the only one possible without any more detail to the
> location and the said topography.
>
> Rob
>
>
> ___________________________________________
> Rob Bracewell BA (Hons) - Access Officer
> Planning & Housing Policy Team, Regeneration & Policy Service
> Lancaster City Council, PO Box 4, Town Hall
> Dalton Square, Lancaster LA1 1QR
> Tel. 01524 582372 Mobile: 07792439623
> Fax 01524 582322
> e: [log in to unmask] w: www.lancaster.gov.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Curry, Paul [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 15 November 2011 10:42
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] difficult decisions - difficult gradients
>
> I think that you're correct in your approach.
>
> We aim for the standard that improves access for all but sometimes
> that's not possible. I would then look at if providing the facility
> would increase access for some people but also be clear about the
> limitations of the access. We describe limited access all the time in
> publicity material, on-line guides etc and this gives people the
> information to choose what to do.
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Vin West
> Sent: 15 November 2011 10:22
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [ACCESSIBUILT] difficult decisions - difficult gradients
>
> Hi,
> I have been asked to support a project to provide accessible parking,
> access route and accessible toilet for a historic building in North
> Wales. The topography of the site is extremely difficult and I fully
> support the desire to make every effort to provide inclusive access.
>
> However, after much measuring, re-measuring and head scratching it seems
> that from a level accessible parking space to a level space for the road
> crossing there is going to be a gradient of between one in ten and one
> in eight over about eight metres.
>
> My personal view is that the project should go ahead with the warning
> that disabled people should be given advance notice of how steep the
> route is and that the ramp must be carefully laid and textured concrete
> to ensure both good grip and good drainage and that good quality
> handrails must be provided both sides and assistance offered when
> needed.
>
> I would welcome comments - but fairly quickly please as this has already
> been discussed in detail and is now waiting to go to planning committee.
>
> many thanks,
>
> Vin
>
>
>
>
> Vin West
> Secretary Arfon Access Group
> Glyn Dwr
> Llandwrog Uchaf
> Caernarfon
> LL54 7RA
>
> 01286 880761
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
>
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